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Yet Another OE locks up request for help!!
why is this so hard? I've searched a zillion oe sites, and usenet
msg's. I can't seem to find any relevant information. I'm running office 2000 (with outlook) along with ms exchange. (I've tried on win2k & xp) I'm running IE6, and OE6 with all available patches installed. I've never used OE - so I CAN'T have any corrupt files - can I?!?. Now I want to test email on an internet account, so I'm trying to use OE. I've added the internet email account to OE, and OE starts up. I can open the list of folders, but as soon as I click on ANY folder, OE locks up. if I go to the folder where OE stores its files: 1) I've tried deleting all the files, restart OE, the files get recreated, but now OE locks up during startup. 2) I've tried deleting only the folders.dbx file; OE starts, re- creates it, and locks up when I click on any folder. 3) I've check any & all registry settings I've read about, to no avail. All I freaking want to do is see if I can send/rcv Email from an internet account!!! I've now spent ALL MORNING trying to get OE to do this! This should NOT be so freaking hard. ne ideas? TIA - Bob |
Yet Another OE locks up request for help!!
Try a new identity. Assuming you've got no data in the original one yet,
simply delete it. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) [working offline] MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: why is this so hard? I've searched a zillion oe sites, and usenet msg's. I can't seem to find any relevant information. I'm running office 2000 (with outlook) along with ms exchange. (I've tried on win2k & xp) I'm running IE6, and OE6 with all available patches installed. I've never used OE - so I CAN'T have any corrupt files - can I?!?. Now I want to test email on an internet account, so I'm trying to use OE. I've added the internet email account to OE, and OE starts up. I can open the list of folders, but as soon as I click on ANY folder, OE locks up. if I go to the folder where OE stores its files: 1) I've tried deleting all the files, restart OE, the files get recreated, but now OE locks up during startup. 2) I've tried deleting only the folders.dbx file; OE starts, re- creates it, and locks up when I click on any folder. 3) I've check any & all registry settings I've read about, to no avail. All I freaking want to do is see if I can send/rcv Email from an internet account!!! I've now spent ALL MORNING trying to get OE to do this! This should NOT be so freaking hard. ne ideas? TIA - Bob |
Yet Another OE locks up request for help!!
"Bob" wrote in message ups.com... why is this so hard? I've searched a zillion oe sites, and usenet msg's. I can't seem to find any relevant information. I'm running office 2000 (with outlook) along with ms exchange. (I've tried on win2k & xp) I'm running IE6, and OE6 with all available patches installed. I've never used OE - so I CAN'T have any corrupt files - can I?!?. Now I want to test email on an internet account, so I'm trying to use OE. I've added the internet email account to OE, and OE starts up. I can open the list of folders, but as soon as I click on ANY folder, OE locks up. if I go to the folder where OE stores its files: 1) I've tried deleting all the files, restart OE, the files get recreated, but now OE locks up during startup. 2) I've tried deleting only the folders.dbx file; OE starts, re- creates it, and locks up when I click on any folder. 3) I've check any & all registry settings I've read about, to no avail. All I freaking want to do is see if I can send/rcv Email from an internet account!!! I've now spent ALL MORNING trying to get OE to do this! This should NOT be so freaking hard. ne ideas? TIA - Bob |
Yet Another OE locks up request for help!!
I'm appreciative to those that replied...
As I've never used OE, there certainly isn't anything to lose by deleting the ID, and creating a new one... problem is, that OE locks up BEFORE I can go to create a new identity!!! is there a command line to create a new ID? TIA - Bob On May 11, 5:12 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: Try a new identity. Assuming you've got no data in the original one yet, simply delete it. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) [working offline] MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: why is this so hard? I've searched a zillion oe sites, and usenet msg's. I can't seem to find any relevant information. I'm running office 2000 (with outlook) along with ms exchange. (I've tried on win2k & xp) I'm running IE6, and OE6 with all available patches installed. I've never used OE - so I CAN'T have any corrupt files - can I?!?. Now I want to test email on an internet account, so I'm trying to use OE. I've added the internet email account to OE, and OE starts up. I can open the list of folders, but as soon as I click on ANY folder, OE locks up. if I go to the folder where OE stores its files: 1) I've tried deleting all the files, restart OE, the files get recreated, but now OE locks up during startup. 2) I've tried deleting only the folders.dbx file; OE starts, re- creates it, and locks up when I click on any folder. 3) I've check any & all registry settings I've read about, to no avail. All I freaking want to do is see if I can send/rcv Email from an internet account!!! I've now spent ALL MORNING trying to get OE to do this! This should NOT be so freaking hard. ne ideas? TIA - Bob |
Yet Another OE locks up request for help!!
See this related page: http://insideoe.tomsterdam.com/faqs/how.htm#delnopass
(skip Step #1 if the identity you're deleting has never been used/contains no data). -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: I'm appreciative to those that replied... As I've never used OE, there certainly isn't anything to lose by deleting the ID, and creating a new one... problem is, that OE locks up BEFORE I can go to create a new identity!!! is there a command line to create a new ID? TIA - Bob On May 11, 5:12 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: Try a new identity. Assuming you've got no data in the original one yet, simply delete it. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) [working offline] MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: why is this so hard? I've searched a zillion oe sites, and usenet msg's. I can't seem to find any relevant information. I'm running office 2000 (with outlook) along with ms exchange. (I've tried on win2k & xp) I'm running IE6, and OE6 with all available patches installed. I've never used OE - so I CAN'T have any corrupt files - can I?!?. Now I want to test email on an internet account, so I'm trying to use OE. I've added the internet email account to OE, and OE starts up. I can open the list of folders, but as soon as I click on ANY folder, OE locks up. if I go to the folder where OE stores its files: 1) I've tried deleting all the files, restart OE, the files get recreated, but now OE locks up during startup. 2) I've tried deleting only the folders.dbx file; OE starts, re- creates it, and locks up when I click on any folder. 3) I've check any & all registry settings I've read about, to no avail. All I freaking want to do is see if I can send/rcv Email from an internet account!!! I've now spent ALL MORNING trying to get OE to do this! This should NOT be so freaking hard. ne ideas? TIA - Bob |
Yet Another OE locks up request for help!!
PA;
TX, I did delete the identity, which, BTW, was the only one (both registry entry & folder). Opening OE afterward, OE did re-create all of the entries, but still locks up before I can do a single thing. NE other ideas? TIA On May 15, 9:24 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: See this related page:http://insideoe.tomsterdam.com/faqs/how.htm#delnopass (skip Step #1 if the identity you're deleting has never been used/contains no data). -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: I'm appreciative to those that replied... As I've never used OE, there certainly isn't anything to lose by deleting the ID, and creating a new one... problem is, that OE locks up BEFORE I can go to create a new identity!!! is there a command line to create a new ID? TIA - Bob On May 11, 5:12 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: Try a new identity. Assuming you've got no data in the original one yet, simply delete it. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) [working offline] MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: why is this so hard? I've searched a zillion oe sites, and usenet msg's. I can't seem to find any relevant information. I'm running office 2000 (with outlook) along with ms exchange. (I've tried on win2k & xp) I'm running IE6, and OE6 with all available patches installed. I've never used OE - so I CAN'T have any corrupt files - can I?!?. Now I want to test email on an internet account, so I'm trying to use OE. I've added the internet email account to OE, and OE starts up. I can open the list of folders, but as soon as I click on ANY folder, OE locks up. if I go to the folder where OE stores its files: 1) I've tried deleting all the files, restart OE, the files get recreated, but now OE locks up during startup. 2) I've tried deleting only the folders.dbx file; OE starts, re- creates it, and locks up when I click on any folder. 3) I've check any & all registry settings I've read about, to no avail. All I freaking want to do is see if I can send/rcv Email from an internet account!!! I've now spent ALL MORNING trying to get OE to do this! This should NOT be so freaking hard. ne ideas? TIA - Bob |
Yet Another OE locks up request for help!!
It's time to...
Run a /thorough/ check for hijackware, including posting your hijackthis log to an appropriate forum. Checking for/Help with Hijackware http://aumha.org/a/parasite.htm http://aumha.org/a/quickfix.htm http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=5878 http://wiki.castlecops.com/Malware_R...:_Introduction http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/unwanted.htm http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/prevention.htm http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/tshoot.html http://www.mvps.org/sramesh2k/Malware_Defence.htm http://defendingyourmachine2.blogspot.com/ http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/...moving_Malware When all else fails, HijackThis v1.99.1 (http://aumha.org/downloads/hijackthis.zip) is the preferred tool to use. It will help you to both identify and remove any hijackware/spyware with assistance from an expert. **Post your log to http://forums.spybot.info/forumdisplay.php?f=22, http://castlecops.com/forum67.html, http://forums.subratam.org/index.php?showforum=7, http://aumha.net/viewforum.php?f=30, or other appropriate forums for expert analysis, not here.** If the procedures look too complex - and there is no shame in admitting this isn't your cup of tea - take the machine to a local, reputable and independent (i.e., not BigBoxStoreUSA) computer repair shop. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: PA; TX, I did delete the identity, which, BTW, was the only one (both registry entry & folder). Opening OE afterward, OE did re-create all of the entries, but still locks up before I can do a single thing. NE other ideas? TIA On May 15, 9:24 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: See this related page:http://insideoe.tomsterdam.com/faqs/how.htm#delnopass (skip Step #1 if the identity you're deleting has never been used/contains no data). -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: I'm appreciative to those that replied... As I've never used OE, there certainly isn't anything to lose by deleting the ID, and creating a new one... problem is, that OE locks up BEFORE I can go to create a new identity!!! is there a command line to create a new ID? TIA - Bob On May 11, 5:12 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: Try a new identity. Assuming you've got no data in the original one yet, simply delete it. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) [working offline] MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: why is this so hard? I've searched a zillion oe sites, and usenet msg's. I can't seem to find any relevant information. I'm running office 2000 (with outlook) along with ms exchange. (I've tried on win2k & xp) I'm running IE6, and OE6 with all available patches installed. I've never used OE - so I CAN'T have any corrupt files - can I?!?. Now I want to test email on an internet account, so I'm trying to use OE. I've added the internet email account to OE, and OE starts up. I can open the list of folders, but as soon as I click on ANY folder, OE locks up. if I go to the folder where OE stores its files: 1) I've tried deleting all the files, restart OE, the files get recreated, but now OE locks up during startup. 2) I've tried deleting only the folders.dbx file; OE starts, re- creates it, and locks up when I click on any folder. 3) I've check any & all registry settings I've read about, to no avail. All I freaking want to do is see if I can send/rcv Email from an internet account!!! I've now spent ALL MORNING trying to get OE to do this! This should NOT be so freaking hard. ne ideas? TIA - Bob |
Yet Another OE locks up request for help!!
PA;
I appreciate where you're going, but that's not the answer here (forgive me for getting ticked off after playing the virus card). Whenever something doesn't work - it's a virus. I know - I do the same thing with some of my customers too. My system scans clean both with AVG & trend micro AND I have this problem on 2 pc's! The 2nd one also scans clean, and isn't used normally for web or email. There is no trojan, virus or other.... OE just locks up - on its own accord, for microsoft knows only why. I understand your position, it can be a tough place. But you need to understand too, that, I've wasted WAY too much of my life trying to solve problems with microsoft products. That's not to say that their the only ones with problems, but they ARE the usual suspect, and some of the mayhem that they cause is intentional. I'm not going to explain that, if it isn't obvious, but all the indicators are plainly visible if anyone takes a real close look. In truth, I make part of my living because microsoft makes things hard. But there's hard, and then there's stupid. It's STUPID for me to spend the amount of time I've spent trying to get OE to work. While generally, I still like to solve problems like this, so I know how to deal with them or similiar issues in the future, at some point I have to move on. You can say I've fixed my Outlook Express problem. I downloaded and installed the free version of Eudora, which works flawlessly, first time out, and doesn't conflict with anything. This is really unfortunate, as my users are outlook users, I really wanted to use OE, in order to provide a similiar user experience. But I want a second client for a specific purpose and reason, and it looks like OE isn't going to work. Please don't take my negativity personally; as I've said in prior posts, I'm always appreciative for the time that people take to answer questions posted to a forum, often when those questions are insanely stupid, or posted without even an attempt to see if someone else has already asked the same question, or even an attempt to research the problem on their own (or even RTFM). I do appreciate your taking the time to get involved with my issue, but the old "go check for virus" just really sent me off, and emphasizes the amount of time I've wasted on a stupid, 1-task, 1-purpose, low-volume, e-mail client. Ironically, OE does work on a couple of my users' PC's, but not all. So I don't know what's its problem is, and I'm fed up trying to.... appreciatively, but sick & tired, Bob On May 16, 3:44 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: It's time to... Run a /thorough/ check for hijackware, including posting your hijackthis log to an appropriate forum. Checking for/Help with Hijackwarehttp://aumha.org/a/parasite.htm http://aumha.org/a/quickfix.htm http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=587...prevention.htm http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/tshoot....moving_Malware When all else fails, HijackThis v1.99.1 (http://aumha.org/downloads/hijackthis.zip) is the preferred tool to use. It will help you to both identify and remove any hijackware/spyware with assistance from an expert. **Post your log tohttp://forums.spybot.info/forumdisplay.php?f=22,http://castlecops.com/forum67.html,h...forum.php?f=30, or other appropriate forums for expert analysis, not here.** If the procedures look too complex - and there is no shame in admitting this isn't your cup of tea - take the machine to a local, reputable and independent (i.e., not BigBoxStoreUSA) computer repair shop. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: PA; TX, I did delete the identity, which, BTW, was the only one (both registry entry & folder). Opening OE afterward, OE did re-create all of the entries, but still locks up before I can do a single thing. NE other ideas? TIA On May 15, 9:24 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: See this related page:http://insideoe.tomsterdam.com/faqs/how.htm#delnopass (skip Step #1 if the identity you're deleting has never been used/contains no data). -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: I'm appreciative to those that replied... As I've never used OE, there certainly isn't anything to lose by deleting the ID, and creating a new one... problem is, that OE locks up BEFORE I can go to create a new identity!!! is there a command line to create a new ID? TIA - Bob On May 11, 5:12 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: Try a new identity. Assuming you've got no data in the original one yet, simply delete it. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) [working offline] MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: why is this so hard? I've searched a zillion oe sites, and usenet msg's. I can't seem to find any relevant information. I'm running office 2000 (with outlook) along with ms exchange. (I've tried on win2k & xp) I'm running IE6, and OE6 with all available patches installed. I've never used OE - so I CAN'T have any corrupt files - can I?!?. Now I want to test email on an internet account, so I'm trying to use OE. I've added the internet email account to OE, and OE starts up. I can open the list of folders, but as soon as I click on ANY folder, OE locks up. if I go to the folder where OE stores its files: 1) I've tried deleting all the files, restart OE, the files get recreated, but now OE locks up during startup. 2) I've tried deleting only the folders.dbx file; OE starts, re- creates it, and locks up when I click on any folder. 3) I've check any & all registry settings I've read about, to no avail. All I freaking want to do is see if I can send/rcv Email from an internet account!!! I've now spent ALL MORNING trying to get OE to do this! This should NOT be so freaking hard. ne ideas? TIA - Bob |
Yet Another OE locks up request for help!!
No offense taken and all of us empathize with you, Bob. In our replies to
this thread, we've pretty much ruled out all other Usual Suspects (email scanning; corrupt message store/identity). While the problem might not be due to a hijackware infection, please understand that a clean bill of health from AVG AV and Trend Micro (HouseCall online scan, I assume) does *not* mean the machines are free of Bad Guys. [And if you've got both AVG and Trend Micro AVs installed and loading at boot, /that/ might be the problem, especially if Trend Micro's anti-spam is part of the suite. Dump (uninstall) one of them.] *No* AV app can identify and remove all hijackware, since most hijackers aren't viruses. Of the AV apps out there that can, AVG AV is at the very bottom of the heap. (NOD32 and KAV6 are at the top IMHO.) If the 2 machines are networked, there's a good chance that one infected the other. The only other possible culprit is having installed MS Outlook, which just /loves/ to steal focus from OE. Good luck with Eudora. Also consider Thunderbird. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: PA; I appreciate where you're going, but that's not the answer here (forgive me for getting ticked off after playing the virus card). Whenever something doesn't work - it's a virus. I know - I do the same thing with some of my customers too. My system scans clean both with AVG & trend micro AND I have this problem on 2 pc's! The 2nd one also scans clean, and isn't used normally for web or email. There is no trojan, virus or other.... OE just locks up - on its own accord, for microsoft knows only why. I understand your position, it can be a tough place. But you need to understand too, that, I've wasted WAY too much of my life trying to solve problems with microsoft products. That's not to say that their the only ones with problems, but they ARE the usual suspect, and some of the mayhem that they cause is intentional. I'm not going to explain that, if it isn't obvious, but all the indicators are plainly visible if anyone takes a real close look. In truth, I make part of my living because microsoft makes things hard. But there's hard, and then there's stupid. It's STUPID for me to spend the amount of time I've spent trying to get OE to work. While generally, I still like to solve problems like this, so I know how to deal with them or similiar issues in the future, at some point I have to move on. You can say I've fixed my Outlook Express problem. I downloaded and installed the free version of Eudora, which works flawlessly, first time out, and doesn't conflict with anything. This is really unfortunate, as my users are outlook users, I really wanted to use OE, in order to provide a similiar user experience. But I want a second client for a specific purpose and reason, and it looks like OE isn't going to work. Please don't take my negativity personally; as I've said in prior posts, I'm always appreciative for the time that people take to answer questions posted to a forum, often when those questions are insanely stupid, or posted without even an attempt to see if someone else has already asked the same question, or even an attempt to research the problem on their own (or even RTFM). I do appreciate your taking the time to get involved with my issue, but the old "go check for virus" just really sent me off, and emphasizes the amount of time I've wasted on a stupid, 1-task, 1-purpose, low-volume, e-mail client. Ironically, OE does work on a couple of my users' PC's, but not all. So I don't know what's its problem is, and I'm fed up trying to.... appreciatively, but sick & tired, Bob On May 16, 3:44 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: It's time to... Run a /thorough/ check for hijackware, including posting your hijackthis log to an appropriate forum. Checking for/Help with Hijackwarehttp://aumha.org/a/parasite.htm http://aumha.org/a/quickfix.htm http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=587...prevention.htm http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/tshoot....moving_Malware When all else fails, HijackThis v1.99.1 (http://aumha.org/downloads/hijackthis.zip) is the preferred tool to use. It will help you to both identify and remove any hijackware/spyware with assistance from an expert. **Post your log tohttp://forums.spybot.info/forumdisplay.php?f=22,http://castlecops.com/forum67.html,h...forum.php?f=30, or other appropriate forums for expert analysis, not here.** If the procedures look too complex - and there is no shame in admitting this isn't your cup of tea - take the machine to a local, reputable and independent (i.e., not BigBoxStoreUSA) computer repair shop. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: PA; TX, I did delete the identity, which, BTW, was the only one (both registry entry & folder). Opening OE afterward, OE did re-create all of the entries, but still locks up before I can do a single thing. NE other ideas? TIA On May 15, 9:24 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: See this related page:http://insideoe.tomsterdam.com/faqs/how.htm#delnopass (skip Step #1 if the identity you're deleting has never been used/contains no data). -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: I'm appreciative to those that replied... As I've never used OE, there certainly isn't anything to lose by deleting the ID, and creating a new one... problem is, that OE locks up BEFORE I can go to create a new identity!!! is there a command line to create a new ID? TIA - Bob On May 11, 5:12 pm, "PA Bear" wrote: Try a new identity. Assuming you've got no data in the original one yet, simply delete it. -- ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) [working offline] MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User) AumHa VSOP & Admin; DTS-L.org Bob wrote: why is this so hard? I've searched a zillion oe sites, and usenet msg's. I can't seem to find any relevant information. I'm running office 2000 (with outlook) along with ms exchange. (I've tried on win2k & xp) I'm running IE6, and OE6 with all available patches installed. I've never used OE - so I CAN'T have any corrupt files - can I?!?. Now I want to test email on an internet account, so I'm trying to use OE. I've added the internet email account to OE, and OE starts up. I can open the list of folders, but as soon as I click on ANY folder, OE locks up. if I go to the folder where OE stores its files: 1) I've tried deleting all the files, restart OE, the files get recreated, but now OE locks up during startup. 2) I've tried deleting only the folders.dbx file; OE starts, re- creates it, and locks up when I click on any folder. 3) I've check any & all registry settings I've read about, to no avail. All I freaking want to do is see if I can send/rcv Email from an internet account!!! I've now spent ALL MORNING trying to get OE to do this! This should NOT be so freaking hard. ne ideas? TIA - Bob |
Yet Another OE locks up request for help!!
"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com... PA; I appreciate where you're going, but that's not the answer here (forgive me for getting ticked off after playing the virus card). Whenever something doesn't work - it's a virus. Less provocatively: it's most likely some unknown incompatibility. I know - I do the same thing with some of my customers too. My system scans clean both with AVG & trend micro AND I have this problem on 2 pc's! The 2nd one also scans clean, and isn't used normally for web or email. There is no trojan, virus or other.... OE just locks up - on its own accord, for microsoft knows only why. Perhaps it would help if you elaborated on what "locks up" means? E.g. check with Task Manager or Process Explorer with full statistics enabled and see what it is doing? Also, have you tried limiting what it could be doing? E.g. one common cause of "lock up" could be a comm problem. You could eliminate that possibility by making sure that you don't have it trying to check any servers, etc. Have you avoided what other possible sources of interference you may have installed? (E.g. AV app., other E-mail agent, etc.) ProcMon would be another diagnostic tool you could use to refine your symptom description from "locks up". E.g. if you have two otherwise identical systems, one which works and one which doesn't, tracing both allows you to do a comparative analysis, without even necessarily having to understand what either trace really says. Etc. HTH Robert Aldwinckle --- |
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