When "do not download it from server" is chosen . . .
 

"JDoe" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
When "do not download it from server" is chosen as an OE6 "message rule,"
then what happens to that incoming email message? Is it deleted
eventually
while on the server? Does it stay on the server ad infinitum? What
happens
to it?

In that same regard, what happens to an incoming email message when
"delete
it from server" is chosen?

The bottom line is that I want to know WHEN (and how) an incoming email
message can be bounced BACK to the sender.

Thanks for responses.

OE6, XP Home SP1

When "do not download it from server" is chosen . . .
 

When "do not download it from server" is chosen as an OE6 "message rule,"
then what happens to that incoming email message? Is it deleted eventually
while on the server? Does it stay on the server ad infinitum? What happens
to it?

In that same regard, what happens to an incoming email message when "delete
it from server" is chosen?

The bottom line is that I want to know WHEN (and how) an incoming email
message can be bounced BACK to the sender.

Thanks for responses.

OE6, XP Home SP1

When "do not download it from server" is chosen . . .
 

"JDoe" wrote in message
...
When "do not download it from server" is chosen as an OE6 "message rule,"
then what happens to that incoming email message? Is it deleted
eventually
while on the server? Does it stay on the server ad infinitum? What
happens
to it?

In that same regard, what happens to an incoming email message when
"delete
it from server" is chosen?

The bottom line is that I want to know WHEN (and how) an incoming email
message can be bounced BACK to the sender.

Thanks for responses.

OE6, XP Home SP1


It remains on the server until you delete it.
OE has no bounce capability.

--
Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM
www.fjsmjs.com
Do not reply with email

When "do not download it from server" is chosen . . .
 

Thank you.

Regards.


"Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM" wrote in message
...
"JDoe" wrote in message
...
When "do not download it from server" is chosen as an OE6 "message
rule,"
then what happens to that incoming email message? Is it deleted
eventually
while on the server? Does it stay on the server ad infinitum? What
happens
to it?

In that same regard, what happens to an incoming email message when
"delete
it from server" is chosen?

The bottom line is that I want to know WHEN (and how) an incoming email
message can be bounced BACK to the sender.

Thanks for responses.

OE6, XP Home SP1


It remains on the server until you delete it.
OE has no bounce capability.

--
Frank Saunders MS-MVP IE,OE/WM
www.fjsmjs.com
Do not reply with email

When "do not download it from server" is chosen . . .
 

Do not download it from server leaves it on the server indefinitely. If you
choose this, eventually you will reach your server's quota and you will stop
receiving messages.

Delete it from server does just that. It doesn't download, and if you
checked your mail via your ISP's Website, the message will be gone.

Why do you want to bounce a message? If you get spam that has a munged
address and you bounced it back, you would end up in a eternal cycle of the
message being bounced, any you getting an undeliverable mail message from
the postmaster. At the very least, if on the off chance it was not a munged
address, you would be telling the spammer to Bring It On! This is a valid
e-mail address.
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
Imperial Beach, CA


"JDoe" wrote in message
...
When "do not download it from server" is chosen as an OE6 "message rule,"
then what happens to that incoming email message? Is it deleted
eventually
while on the server? Does it stay on the server ad infinitum? What
happens
to it?

In that same regard, what happens to an incoming email message when
"delete
it from server" is chosen?

The bottom line is that I want to know WHEN (and how) an incoming email
message can be bounced BACK to the sender.

Thanks for responses.

OE6, XP Home SP1

When "do not download it from server" is chosen . . .
 

Aha! Sage stuff. And thanks.

Regards.


"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
...
Do not download it from server leaves it on the server indefinitely. If
you
choose this, eventually you will reach your server's quota and you will
stop
receiving messages.

Delete it from server does just that. It doesn't download, and if you
checked your mail via your ISP's Website, the message will be gone.

Why do you want to bounce a message? If you get spam that has a munged
address and you bounced it back, you would end up in a eternal cycle of
the
message being bounced, any you getting an undeliverable mail message from
the postmaster. At the very least, if on the off chance it was not a
munged
address, you would be telling the spammer to Bring It On! This is a valid
e-mail address.
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
Imperial Beach, CA


"JDoe" wrote in message
...
When "do not download it from server" is chosen as an OE6 "message
rule,"
then what happens to that incoming email message? Is it deleted
eventually
while on the server? Does it stay on the server ad infinitum? What
happens
to it?

In that same regard, what happens to an incoming email message when
"delete
it from server" is chosen?

The bottom line is that I want to know WHEN (and how) an incoming email
message can be bounced BACK to the sender.

Thanks for responses.

OE6, XP Home SP1

When "do not download it from server" is chosen . . .
 

Bruce Hagen wrote:
Do not download it from server leaves it on the
server
indefinitely. If you choose this, eventually you will
reach your server's quota and you will stop receiving
messages.

Most servers actually age off old messages after a
certain length of time. It does not stay there
indefinitely. Usually it's easily found in the FAQs at
your server.


Delete it from server does just that. It doesn't
download, and if you checked your mail via your ISP's
Website, the message will be gone.

I'm not certain of this, but it seems to be only on the
computer where it's been deleted from the server. OE
just says it's not there any longer; and the server
ages things off unnoticed that way.
How do I know? I have two OE accounts. My main
account, I delete messages from the server after 5
days. And after 5 days I can't get it anymore, even
with a "show all" setting. BUT, if I open the *other*
OE identity, I can go to the server and download it
again. Along with a couple months of other old
messages too, so it's sometimes hard to find, but it's
there.
I only have this single experience, so I've no idea
how widespread it is. AFAIK though it's nothing
special and I've never seen it advertised as any
special advantage. FWIW anyway.

Why do you want to bounce a message? If you get spam
that
has a munged address and you bounced it back, you
would
end up in a eternal cycle of the message being
bounced,
any you getting an undeliverable mail message from
the
postmaster. At the very least, if on the off chance
it
was not a munged address, you would be telling the
spammer to Bring It On! This is a valid e-mail
address.

Actually, it's impossible to actually "bounce" a
message from an account. Only the ISP can bounce
messages, either at the entrance, or que'd for a later
"newmail" type of bounce.
MailWasher for instance has what it likes to call a
'bounce' feature. It uses the Return Path and From:
field for the address to bounce to. But it's a fake
bounce and it's easily identified as such, and is
perceived as spam by spamfighters and newbies alike,
resulting in spam complaints to/about innocent parties.
Both those fields are forged, 99.9% of the time. So
many MailWasher users often find themselves with spam
complaints against their accounts and don't understand
why. Even though it's been advised of this several
times, and even been reported itself from such things
as their address being forged into the From: field,
they still refuse to remove it. Caveat emptor.

Only an ISP can "bounce" am e-mail accureately, and
then only back to the source that sent it. If there is
another source beyond that one, it must relay the
bounce, too, until it gets back to the originator; who,
BTW is going to be the spammer, which is NOT the right
place to be notifying!

HTH

Pop`


"JDoe" wrote in message
...
When "do not download it from server" is chosen as
an
OE6 "message rule," then what happens to that
incoming
email message? Is it deleted eventually
while on the server? Does it stay on the server ad
infinitum? What happens
to it?

In that same regard, what happens to an incoming
email
message when "delete
it from server" is chosen?

The bottom line is that I want to know WHEN (and
how) an
incoming email message can be bounced BACK to the
sender.

Thanks for responses.

OE6, XP Home SP1

When "do not download it from server" is chosen . . .
 

N. Miller wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:26:52 -0500, Poprivet` wrote:

....

We are talking POP3 service?

Yes, it is POP3 service. To make sure I wasn't telling
tales out of school, I just checked my settings and
I'm sure it's no surprise to you that I was *wrong*!
The Delete After 7 days is no longer checked! Argghh,
I hate when that happens! Shoulda done that first as I
usually do!!!!
APOLOGIES TO ANYONE WHO READ MY MISINFORMATION AND
BELIEVED IT. I should know better, honest! Stupid,
stupid, stupid!
Moral: Never, ever ass-u-me anything is ever as it
was when it's important to you! Or can embarass you;
*stuff* happens! Always check it. I'll blame it on
the snow; we got two feet of it in one storm so my
brain's been burned by today's bright sunlight.

....

Now, if you are talking IMAP, that is another ball of
wax, entirely.

Glancing around sheepishly, he said "Yeah, that's it!
It's an IMAP! But unfortunately it's POP3. Never have
been a good liarg.

It may be something unique to that particular email
service; it does not fit the normal pattern for
standard
POP3 service (if I understood what you posted).

Norm, you're a gentleman and a scholar with pretty
decent interpersonal skills, know that? Thanks for not
just flaming in such a way that meant nothing. I'd
rather be shown as wrong than to be allowed to go on
giving out misinformation, which I absolutely abhor.
I'll be much more careful in the future, believe me. I
doubt I'll skip the verification step next time.

....

How does a fake bounce result in a complaint about an
innocent party? Have you ever dissected one? Whether

Yes, I have dissected many spams over about the last 5
years, first manually, mostly now with an online parser
but still manuall if the parse results don't look
right. It's gotten a little harder since DNSstuff.com
put so many restrictions in place for their tools, but
they've relented a tad, and they're useful again (for
me) since I don't have to use them that often. There
are other sources for such things but dnsstuff.com was
pretty much a turnkey site.

a
bounce is phony, or genuine, the headers will point
to
the source of the message; accurately so.

Actually, no, they won't. Only the first and second
Received lines as a rule can be considered as accurate
because your ISP inserts those (seen as a client, that
is, not as the ISP). Beyond that, and especially
including the From and Return Path fields, all of it
can be forged. Once you've encountered a forged line,
nothing beyond it is reliable as tracking info.

All bounce
to
forged email addresses are, rightly, considered
abuse,
and the sender of the bounce will be the party named
in
the complaint.

It's supposed to be. Unfortunately though, any
application that claims to be able to "bounce" e-mail
after it's been received by the recipient at his
machine, can by definitioin not be a bounce. I haven't
yet seen an application yet that does anything but grab
the forged From or Return Path to send its "bounce".
Well, except Sam Spade, I guess.
Since most spammers place an innocent spammee's
address there, it goes to an innocent party who, upon
receipt, may in turn decide it's spam and report it as
such. I don't, but I know several people who do report
them. MailWasher makes that so easy to do that many
users often end up finding themselves reported for
spamming because of its "bounce" feature being used
over and over and over. MailWasher makes (last I knew)
zero effort to parse the headers in any way; it just
grabs the From field and sends it fake bounce there.

snip

Only an ISP can "bounce" am e-mail accureately, and
then only back to the source that sent it.

Actually, only the operator of the SMTP relay agent
which
tried to send the messsage, and failed, can
accurately
bounce the message.

Right; agreed. But not easily understood by all.


If there is another source beyond that one, it must
relay the bounce, too, until it gets back to the
originator; who,
BTW is going to be the spammer, which is NOT the
right
place to be notifying!

An Email Service Provider should only bounce to the
authorized user account. If it can't do that
accurately,
it should not send the bounce at all.

Agreed, too. I don't mean to imply that I understand
the server side of the transactions at all. I am
strictly from the user's side's Inbox. What you say is
correct with normal e-mail sent normally be at least
semi-normal people.
I agree that with most junk mail the source can be
parsed out of the forgeries in many cases too, though
it takes some work. But where they become impossible
to parse properly is whenever the spammer has injected
his tripe into a proxy, open port, anything he can find
to barge into. In those cases everything below the
last ISPs headers could be forged. And discovering a
single forged line makes all the lines below it
suspect, so there's some work involved to determing if
anything at all is non-forged after that.
I've even seen forged first Received lines but NO
idea how that's done.
In those cases, and this is most of the spam
anymore, and why blocking places like .cn, .ru, etc.
works so well, because that spam isn't going to be
easily traced. For those reasons, I also go after the
spamvertised web sites and especially drop boxes when I
come across them.

Anyway, them's my 2 ¢ on it all, as an active
spamfighter over the last several years. My major
spamfighting tools are spamcop.net, dnsstuff.com for
manual lookups, Sam Spade sometimes, and tracert.

I've no objections to your corrections if I've
misstated things, but realize please that I'm trying to
keep it non-technical as much as reasonable. Quotes
from an RFC or FYI are liable to go right over my head
but I'm cognizant of most of the buzz words in the
simpler contexts.

Regards,

Pop`

When "do not download it from server" is chosen . . .
 

Thank you.

Regards.


"N. Miller" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 22:10:13 -0500, JDoe wrote:

When "do not download it from server" is chosen as an OE6 "message
rule,"
then what happens to that incoming email message? Is it deleted
eventually
while on the server? Does it stay on the server ad infinitum? What
happens
to it?

In that same regard, what happens to an incoming email message when
"delete
it from server" is chosen?

The bottom line is that I want to know WHEN (and how) an incoming email
message can be bounced BACK to the sender.

Once a domain gateway mail server has accepted email for delivery, there
is
no proper way to "bounce" a message back. There is no way for the server
to
know the actual originating source of the message because the SMTP "MAIL
FROM:" email address is easily forged; you may wind up annoying the victim
of the email address forgery.

If you have control over your domain gateway mail server, you can
configure
it to refuse to accept email from certain sources; otherwise all that you
can do is use filters to sort the email in your mailbox.

--
Norman
~Shine, bright morning light,
~now in the air the spring is coming.
~Sweet, blowing wind,
~singing down the hills and valleys.