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Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Microsoft has employed the Top Posting Protocol for Outlook Express and
Windows Live Mail -- and presumably for Outlook as well. I don't use Outlook, yet. [Although WLM offers a choice of Top or Bottom Posting...] I think it's definitely the Right Way To Go. Put the New Material at the TOP. Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers. But will Microsoft have the courage to continue to endorse Top Posting in the face of so many outcries from Yahoo Bottom Posters? Let's Hope So... -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
QP
Microsoft has employed the Top Posting Protocol for Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail /QP Care to cite where you read that? -- Bruce Hagen MS-MVP Outlook Express Imperial Beach, CA "D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message ... Microsoft has employed the Top Posting Protocol for Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail -- and presumably for Outlook as well. I don't use Outlook, yet. [Although WLM offers a choice of Top or Bottom Posting...] I think it's definitely the Right Way To Go. Put the New Material at the TOP. Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers. But will Microsoft have the courage to continue to endorse Top Posting in the face of so many outcries from Yahoo Bottom Posters? Let's Hope So... -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Microsoft has employed the Top Posting Protocol for Outlook Express
and Windows Live Mail -- and presumably for Outlook as well. I don't use Outlook, yet. [Although WLM offers a choice of Top or Bottom Posting...] I think it's definitely the Right Way To Go. Put the New Material at the TOP. Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers. But will Microsoft have the courage to continue to endorse Top Posting in the face of so many outcries from Yahoo Bottom Posters? Let's Hope So... QP Microsoft has employed the Top Posting Protocol for Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail /QP Care to cite where you read that? And how was that original post anything but an attempt to start the traditional top vs. bottom posting flame war? -- f.h. Microsoft Outlook MVP |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
NOTE: The following UNLRELATED newsgroup was removed from my reply because Outlook has nothing to do with newsgroups which is the only place of concern regarding top- versus bottom-posting: - Removed: microsoft.public.outlook.general Microsoft has employed the Top Posting Protocol for Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail -- and presumably for Outlook as well. I don't use Outlook, yet. Top- and bottom-posting are not protocols. They are *styles*. It's up to you what style you want to use. Some newsreaders (where only top- versus bottom-posting is a heated issue) let you select which style you want to use. OE does, too, but not through a UI config screen. Since Windows XP service pack 2, there has been a registry edit that lets you change from the default top-posting style of OE to switch to bottom- posting style (and another registry edit to decide where to put the signatu before or after the quoted content in a reply). [Although WLM offers a choice of Top or Bottom Posting...] Yep, Window Live Mail moved the registry settings to UI config screens to make it easier and safer to make those choices. I think it's definitely the Right Way To Go. There are lots of arguing about whether top- or bottom-posting should be used. I'm not going through to rehash all those arguments again. However, what you SHOULD do is *retain* the same style in your replies (and in your editing of the quoted content to maintain that same order). If you are the first to reply (in a subthread) then you get to choose to use top- or bottom-posting. Everyone thereafter that replies in that same subthread should be polite in using the same style. There is no RFC standard to specify a header where the original poster can request a particular posting style be used in replies, so it is really up to the first respondent in a subthread to establish the style in that subthread. If you are stubborn and want to force your own style then make sure you edit the quoted content so all of the other posts you are quoting are also in the same order as is your reply style. Don't simply be quoting the other posts in some jumbled mess of mixed top- and bottom-posting order. As you are expected to snip the quoted content to provide enough context for your reply, you are also expected to sort the quoted content into the same style that you use in your reply. If you want to argue for a particular order then DO IT yourself within your own reply posts! Put the New Material at the TOP. But then why bother top-posting? Since the idea is that you expect no one to read the quoted content below your reply to provide context for your reply then there is no point in quoting at all. Just reply without any quoting (which makes top- versus bottom-posting completely irrelevant). Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers. Oh, your argument (used by many for top-posting) is that you are a lazy poster and simply use whatever style for your replies that your newsreader defaults to (although, as shown, you DO have the option even in OE to change style). So if you are too lazy to use your own style then we can also assume that you are too lazy to edit the quoted content to reorder them in the same order as your chosen style, and that you are too lazy to snip the fluff from the quoted content to provide only the sufficient level of context for your own reply. And we should care about the wants of lazy posters' why? But will Microsoft have the courage to continue to endorse Top Posting in the face of so many outcries from Yahoo Bottom Posters? Um, OE has defaulted to top-posting since it existed as Internet Mail & News and after Microsoft acquired it and eventually renamed to Outlook Express. So Microsoft *does* endorsed top-posting style in OE. Microsoft doesn't generate Usenet standards (whether by RFC or as de facto standards) and their service pack 2 to provide registry edits for OE and providing those config settings in the UI dialogs for WLM was Microsoft acknowledging that perhaps they didn't make the correct choice. Let's Hope So... Let's hope you decide not to be a lazy poster. Even if you elect to top-post (which is relevant only to replies), let's hope that you maintain the same posting order as established by a prior respondent (unless you happen to the be the first one in a subthread), and let's hope that you reorder the quoted content to match your posting style, and let's hope you learn how to snip the quoted content to provide only sufficient context for your own replies. |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
One thing we have learned from this fellow in
microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop is "Don't feed the troll." This posting is a public service. Cheers, Earle "D. Spencer Hines" escribió en el mensaje de noticias ... Microsoft has employed the Top Posting Protocol for Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail -- and presumably for Outlook as well. I don't use Outlook, yet. [Although WLM offers a choice of Top or Bottom Posting...] I think it's definitely the Right Way To Go. Put the New Material at the TOP. Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers. But will Microsoft have the courage to continue to endorse Top Posting in the face of so many outcries from Yahoo Bottom Posters? Let's Hope So... -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Top Posting is Sound Theory...
No Doubt About That... Does OUTLOOK also position the cursor at the top for replying to incoming emails -- by default? -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
No...
You miss the point. The old material is down there for perusal by those who have not been following the thread or who have poor memories -- OR who want to refresh their memories -- OR who want to focus on a particular statement. NO need to put all that baggage up front. There is simply NO reason to force the alert, witting, intelligent reader to slog through it all again. Microsoft had it right initially... But CHOICE of Top or Bottom Posting for the dullards and taking it to the UI rather than through Registry Changes was a reasonable action. Salud, -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor "VanguardLH" wrote in message ... Put the New Material at the TOP. [DSH] But then why bother top-posting? Since the idea is that you expect no one to read the quoted content below your reply to provide context for your reply then there is no point in quoting at all. Just reply without any quoting (which makes top- versus bottom-posting completely irrelevant). Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers, who can remember what they read. Dullards often cannot. |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Does OUTLOOK also position the cursor at the top for replying to
incoming emails -- by default? Email != newgroups. Yes, email messages in Outlook have the cursor put at the top of the message. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 does not clarify whether top posting or bottom posting is good ettiquette for email, only speaking to newsgroups. -- f.h. Microsoft Outlook MVP |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Well...
Then that's a Good Thing... That OUTLOOK positions the cursor at the TOP for emails. Well Done... -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor "F.H. Muffman" wrote in message .com... Does OUTLOOK also position the cursor at the top for replying to incoming emails -- by default? Email != newgroups. Yes, email messages in Outlook have the cursor put at the top of the message. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 does not clarify whether top posting or bottom posting is good ettiquette for email, only speaking to newsgroups. -- f.h. Microsoft Outlook MVP |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Long time Troll and I did say so when he started posting again in the beginning of
last year -- Peter Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged. "Earle Horton" wrote in message ... One thing we have learned from this fellow in microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop is "Don't feed the troll." This posting is a public service. Cheers, Earle "D. Spencer Hines" escribió en el mensaje de noticias ... Microsoft has employed the Top Posting Protocol for Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail -- and presumably for Outlook as well. I don't use Outlook, yet. [Although WLM offers a choice of Top or Bottom Posting...] I think it's definitely the Right Way To Go. Put the New Material at the TOP. Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers. But will Microsoft have the courage to continue to endorse Top Posting in the face of so many outcries from Yahoo Bottom Posters? Let's Hope So... -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Nonsense...
This is an... Important... Ongoing... Issue... That is still being worked out by... Microsoft...and Consumers. Therefore... It deserves... Serious Discussions... Not Petulant Dismissal. -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor "Peter Foldes" wrote in message ... Long time Troll and I did say so when he started posting again in the beginning of last year -- Peter |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
... Put the New Material at the TOP. Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers. So you read a book from the bottom up? -- Asking a question? Please tell us the version of the application you are asking about, your OS, Service Pack level and the FULL contents of any error message(s) |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
... There is simply NO reason to force the alert, witting, intelligent reader to slog through it all again. That's twice you've used the word "witting". What does that mean? -- Tom Koch Awareness is free. http://tomsterdam.com http://insideoe.com |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
No... You miss the point. You missed the point. The old material is down there for perusal by those who have not been following the thread or who have poor memories -- OR who want to refresh their memories -- OR who want to focus on a particular statement. Then don't bother quoting the other posts. If you are going to force the user to go hunting for the context of your reply, you might as well as force them to go read the post to which you replied. NO need to put all that baggage up front. And there's no point in putting all that baggage at the end, either, if you aren't going to provide context for your reply. There is simply NO reason to force the alert, witting, intelligent reader to slog through it all again. Not everyone visits just one or two newsgroups as do you. Not everyone merely reads those posts of interests. Not everyone only responds to only one or two posts per day. Providing context means letting someone regain the context of something that they aren't going to waste brain cells to remember. Microsoft had it right initially... Since Microsoft did not invent Usenet and since Microsoft doesn't define the RFCs for Usenet and since Microsoft was so very late an entrant to Usenet that de facto standards already existed that Microsoft *chose* to ignore does not make Microsoft right. It just made the spell checking and prepend code easier to implement. But CHOICE of Top or Bottom Posting for the dullards and taking it to the UI rather than through Registry Changes was a reasonable action. To that I will agree but then YOU must also realize that Microsoft would have added the registry edits or UI config settings to select which posting style to use unless Microsoft finally realized that they were not correct and that they had failed in trying to rewrite the de facto standards in long practice before Microsoft showed up in Usenet. They got it wrong and then offered a choice of doing it the old way or doing it their way. |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Of course, you took the safest route to argue your point. You posted in
microsoft.public.* newsgroups where a large number of users of OE are posting and are lazy by using the default posting style of OE, uneducated regarding the registry hack, and too lazy to review the config settings in WLM. Go post in a non-microsoft newsgroup to see how well you far against the much larger non-Microsoft Usenet community in your shortsighted arguments. Microsoft is not Usenet. In Usenet, Microsoft has a small presence. If you want to proselytize your faith and convictions, you don't preach to the choir. Go seek converts outside the church. Be prepared for many tribulations on your quest. |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Gordon wrote:
D. Spencer Hines wrote ... Put the New Material at the TOP. Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers. So you read a book from the bottom up? Careful. Many that proselytize top-posting do flip to the couple of pages of the last chapter. They're too lazy to provide context. They're too lazy to snip. They're too lazy to maintain the same order in the quoted posts as they use as their own posting style. They're not just ignorant. They choose to be lazy. The Microsoft-cosm is the entire realm of their computing and Usenet experience. To them, Unix is probably a one-horned white horse or a poor bloke missing his balls. |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message ... No... You miss the point. The old material is down there for perusal by those who have not been following the thread or who have poor memories -- OR who want to refresh their memories -- OR who want to focus on a particular statement. NO need to put all that baggage up front. There is simply NO reason to force the alert, witting, intelligent reader to What's a witting? -- Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could remember the darn question |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Sorry for the threadjack.
I am or rather was a long term Outhouse Distress user. I never knew there were such registry hacks to select top/bottom post and/or signing. I used OEQuotefix towards the end of that time, which gave me the capability of bottom posting amongst other things, in particular plain text formatting, where *text* would produce a bolding of the word text, and /text/ , italic text. Think there were a couple of others too. Was this also implemented but not broadcast in OE and WLM? -- Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could remember the darn question |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"VanguardLH" wrote in message
... To them, Unix is probably a one-horned white horse or a poor bloke missing his balls. ROTFL! -- Asking a question? Please tell us the version of the application you are asking about, your OS, Service Pack level and the FULL contents of any error message(s) |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
... I think it's definitely the Right Way To Go. Put the New Material at the TOP. Top- or bottom-posting is almost religious. Do you read your books backward, starting at the last page and continuing to the first? No, you need prior context to understand what comes after and that's what bottom posting gives. The biggest flaw in bottom posting is that people don't trim adequately to maintain a context yet keep the message size reasonable (unlike me wink). That's an even bigger flaw in top posting: no one ever trims anything. I install add-ins to both Outlook and my newsreader that reformat the default top posting into a bottom post. Even were I to not use these add-ins, I'd take the time to reformat manually to a bottom post. -- Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook] |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"Bruce Hagen" wrote in message
... Care to cite where you read that? No need to cite it. All one need do is to reply in either Outlook, Outlook Express, or the default configuration of Windows Mail. -- Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook] |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
... Top Posting is Sound Theory... No Doubt About That... Even sounder is to include a portion of the message to which you think you're replying in your response. We have no idea otherwise what you're addressing. Since you're using Outlok Express, that's easily configured. Please do that. Does OUTLOOK also position the cursor at the top for replying to incoming emails -- by default? Yes, but I dislike it. Bottom posting is sound theory. grin -- Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook] |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
... Nonsense... This is an... Important... Ongoing... Issue... Unneeded line breaks as well. Now you're really starting to violate even the basics of message writing. -- Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook] |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Understood, but I do not consider that as a *protocol*.
-- Bruce Hagen MS-MVP Outlook Express Imperial Beach, CA "Brian Tillman [MVP - Outlook]" wrote in message ... "Bruce Hagen" wrote in message ... Care to cite where you read that? No need to cite it. All one need do is to reply in either Outlook, Outlook Express, or the default configuration of Windows Mail. -- Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook] |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Newsgroup posts and books have nothing in common.
Entirely Different Media... False Analogy... -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor "Brian Tillman [MVP - Outlook]" wrote in message ... Do you read your books backward, starting at the last page and continuing to the first? |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
No...
Bottom posting is for dullards who generally have poor memories, are often careless, undisciplined readers and who need to be spoon fed like babies. Microsoft got it right. -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor "Brian Tillman [MVP - Outlook]" wrote in message ... Bottom posting is sound theory. grin -- Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook] |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
... Bottom posting is for dullards who generally have poor memories, are often careless, undisciplined readers and who need to be spoon fed like babies. Thanks for informing me I'm a dullard. You're entitled to your opinion, but keep in mind it's your opinion and not that of others. You believing something doesn't make it a fact. -- Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook] |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Microsoft obviously thought better -- was more intelligent and far-sighted
and made the default protocol... Top Posting. In Outlook Express, Outlook and Windows Live Mail... All Three... Well Done! Dullards Take Note... -- DSH Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor "Brian Tillman [MVP - Outlook]" wrote in message ... "D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message ... Bottom posting is for dullards who generally have poor memories, are often careless, undisciplined readers and who need to be spoon fed like babies. Thanks for informing me I'm a dullard. You're entitled to your opinion, but keep in mind it's your opinion and not that of others. You [sic] believing something doesn't make it a fact. -- Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook] |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
... Microsoft obviously thought better -- was more intelligent and far-sighted and made the default protocol... Plonk! -- Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook] |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"Brian Tillman [MVP - Outlook]" wrote in message ... "D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message ... Microsoft obviously thought better -- was more intelligent and far-sighted and made the default protocol... Plonk! -- Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook] Most sensible contribution I've seen! -- Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I wish I could remember the darn question |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"Gordon" wrote in message ...
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message ... Put the New Material at the TOP. Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers. So you read a book from the bottom up? Got news for you. We're not reading books here. ;-) If I see a post where the new text is not immediately visible, I go on to the next post. I don't have time for scrolling. -- Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail) |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
Spot On...
Dullard Bottom-Posters fail to understand that Human Axiom. -- D. Spencer Hines Lux et Veritas et Libertas Vires et Honor Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum "Gary VanderMolen" wrote in message ... "Gordon" wrote in message ... "D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message ... Put the New Material at the TOP. Saves time and effort for witting, alert, intelligent readers. So you read a book from the bottom up? Got news for you. We're not reading books here. ;-) If I see a post where the new text is not immediately visible, I go on to the next post. I don't have time for scrolling. -- Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail) |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
"Tom Koch" wrote in message
... "D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message ... There is simply NO reason to force the alert, witting, intelligent reader to slog through it all again. That's twice you've used the word "witting". What does that mean? Presumably part of a compliment - witting, unwitting? |
Top Posting Protocol For Microsoft Software
D. Spencer Hines wrote:
Spot On... Dullard Bottom-Posters fail to understand that Human Axiom. Plonk. Idiot. -- Asking a question? Please tell us the version of the application you are asking about, your OS, Service Pack level and the FULL contents of any error message(s) |
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