"Dan" wrote in message
...
So let's see he I purchase and use a product from Microsoft, and it is
NOT their responsibility to provide me with proper instructions on how to
use it??! And as it is their product (OE) that I used to set up a
newsgroup account on worse yet, THEIR network! (msnews,microsoft.com) yet
you still contend they had no responsibility to provide PROPER
instructions through the help files??! Even though it is their setup
protocol written into the program? I have no control over how they write
their programs, so I have no control over how they have arranged the setup
protocol, which tricks users into entering their email address, which I'm
sure you must agree is totally unnecessary to participate here.

And who exactly is responsible to advise me in setting up my newsgroup
account on THEIR program, on THEIR network????????? Am I supposed to be
born with that knowledge?? I simply followed the instructions included in
the program. THEY (MS) omitted the fact I should enter a false address to
avoid it going public. You wrote, "it is your opinion that Microsoft
should supply this" well, its THEIR program, on THEIR network, so who
exactly do you propose should supply this??????????????????????
You didn't point me in the direction of where I was supposed to find this
supposedly so common knowledge of SAFELY setting up a newsgroup account
when doing so, so I must assume that it is your opinion that everyone must
be born with this great knowledge as you were, I guess.

NOTHING changes the fact that the setup protocol in THEIR program should
not even ask for the user to enter an email address if it is not necessary
for participation here!! Let alone for them to make it public without
EXPLICIT warning FIRST, AND WITHOUT EXPLICIT PERMISSION!!

From the research I have done since, it seems that these newsgroups are
responsible for a HUGE percentage of the spam, viruses, trojans and worms
out there, due to this practice of tricking users into entering an
unnecessary email address instead of a simple user name. If MS was serious
about wanting to stamp out these threats, they would make the necessary
changes. It does seem they want to get big in the security software
industry now, doesn't it!?

This IS my opinion, though that does not exclude it from also being fact,
which it may be. I would certainly welcome your challenge to change this
opinion by providing me provable facts, such as how exactly I should have
known in advance that the instructions in OE were not complete. Is it your
contention that the computer manufacturer should have put a great big
sticker on the computer warning NOT to enter an email address when signing
up for newsgroups because it isn't necessary anyway??? If you are here to
be useful, then tell me where I missed this information which you seem to
believe is so obvious. If I was not tricked, and indeed I somehow missed
the warning, or misread the instructions, please, show me where, and I
will humbly apologize to you!

Otherwise, the reason for my post here was to be helpful to others, so
they can avoid the same pitfalls.
D.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Sorry, but nothing in your "War and Peace" post here changes the fact
that it's not Microsoft's responsibility to advise you how to set up your
newsgroup account. Everything in what you have written suggests that it
is your opinion that Microsoft should supply this and that is fine. It's
an opinion. If that's the way you see it, you are certainly entitled to
that opinion and I will be the last person to try and change it. I
learned a long time ago that people who write "opinions" as long as yours
seldom really want those opinions challenged or changed.
The very best to you, and I sincerely hope you don't get all that much
Spam from the robots. If it's any consolation, the filters are much
better now than they used to be. You should be ok I think.
Take care,
Dudley Henriques


"Dan" wrote in message
...

With all due respect to you Dudley, if any is even warranted in this
case:

I do not believe for one minute that I am blaming the wrong people at
all. I
attempted to solve my problems thru my computer manufacturer and
Microsoft
without any success... Their answers: "I don't know"

I searched the internet, found a suggestion to try getting advice on
these
newsgroups. Excellent suggestion, Mr. Hagen was able to provide a
solution
to one main problem, and I was able to deduce thru reading here, that
the
other problems were not due to OE, but rather other problems in the
system
'spilling over'

While you may know that there is no reason a real email address should
have
to appear (and perhaps you knew this since you were born thru devine
revelation), you'll have to excuse me if my mind reading capabilities
were a
bit off the day I set up OE for these newsgroups. Of course I am being
sarcastic to make a point here. I do 'understand' what you have written,
so
please take a moment to think thru what I am about to say.

First, as a newer user 9 months ago, I was doing everything I could to
'research and educate' myself, in order to use my system safely. While
setting up to receive these newsgroups thru OE, the setup asked me to
enter
my email address. Someone who has never used these newsgroups before
would
not know in advance that entering a false email address would still
allow
interaction. Indeed, most other sites on the internet would deny you
access
until they confirm you email address, and these same sites do not make
your
email public, hence the use of usernames.

While setting up and using the 'help' files and instructions, not once
did
it indicate that a REAL email address could or should be substituted in
order to thwart this KNOWN PROBLEM!!!! As it is a KNOWN PROBLEM, one
should
expect the necessary information to be contained in the help and
instruction
files. And by reading the help files and instructions I believe I have,
in
your words, "taken the trouble before posting to take the necessary
steps to
insure it doesn't appear on a forum." and "to take the time to learn
what
has to be
learned before arriving on Usenet."

As these newsgroups came as a function of the OE software, I believe it
should be incumbent on the manufacturer to provide the necessary
information
to protect our systems and security, which they did NOT! Had they
included
this information about this KNOWN problem while I was "taking the time
to
learn what has to be learned", I could have avoided this trouble. The
option
to enter a false address was never presented to me. That IS NEGLIGENCE.
A
simple warning about this KNOWN issue during setup would be SIMPLE for
MS to
provide, unless of course they want this behaviour to continue, so they
can
of course sell us additional software to thwart the spammers! Hmmmm!

And, do you believe for one moment that it is absolutely necessary for
these
newsgroups to have to show the text of the email address used during
setup?
As I am looking at yours as I type, I will use it as an example, "From:
"Dudley Henriques" " Not for one moment do I
believe
that is necessary for these groups to function properly. I repeat, this
is a
KNOWN ISSUE. A simple update to the software these groups run on could
replace these email addresses with user names for safer computing. It
really
should be a simple fix. AND I bet I'm not nearly the only one who has
experienced this. REALLY, what is the use of having a false email
address
here?? " goes no where, right?! So what is the
purpose of it even having to be there??? Wouldn't a simple username
after
the 'From' be enough here?!!

Knowing this problem exists and NOT fixing it on MS's part IS
negligence.
They release patches for nearly every other security problem that is
found,
so why ignore this simple solution to thwart the badguys??! Then its not
a
problem anymore. I do blame MS here (I don't know of or use any other
company's newsgroups, but I would expect the same of them). If they do
not
want to provide a warning in the setup process, instructions or help
files,
then there should be NO REASON to even ask for an email address during
setup, since a valid address is obviously not necessary for this
application
to function, and therefore the necessity of having to enter an email
address
at all (real or false) is misleading to the user, and ONLY serves to
assist
the spammers in their quest!

As you felt the need to express your opinion here under this thread, I
hope
my response will give you pause to consider the logic of my arguments
above.
If I am wrong about the set up instructions in OE, please tell me where
I
may find the message that I may input a real or false email address when
I
am asked to enter this during set up, and I will gladly apologize for my
ignorance. Otherwise, I will continue to believe that the fact an email
address is even asked for during setup instead of a username only, IS
indeed
an unnecessary hole in the security of the software that should be
patched,
especially since the address serves ZERO useful function. And I will
still
contend that despite my attempt at due diligence, the lack of a warning
or
proper instructions or notification to this KNOWN problem IS what has
caused
this problem. I guess if I had been gifted with ESP, I may have felt the
need to surf the net for 30 hours until I came across something that
warned
that newsgroups ask you on setup to input an unnecessary email address
that
may or may not be real. Shame on me for thinking that the software that
came
with my computer from a well known company like MS would include any
necessary instructions in its help files to prevent me from operating
the
software in an unsecure way, let alone to be mislead into entering an
email
address that is not even necessary.

But since it seems that you do possess these psychic abilities, could
you
please provide me with the winning numbers for this Wednesdays Ontario
Lotto
6/49 Draw?? That way I never have to bother you again as I will just
hire
someone to find the solutions I need. Maybe I can find and afford a
psychic
for that position!!

But seriously, I do hope my explanation here will give you cause to
rethink
your previous position, and consider that most of the people who come
here
looking for answers, do so because of inexperience, and are also being
mislead into opening a hole in their own security. And perhaps the MS
MVP's
who read this may see the logic as well, and report back to MS that this
really should be fixed to improve security for everyone. I've spent
hours a
day for the last 9 months surfing the net at a myriad of sites, signed
up to
many of them and provided the 'necessary' or 'requested' sign-up
information, but I can confidently say that every single piece of spam I
am
bombarded with daily has originated from my sign up HERE as my 5 other
email
addresses have never received a single piece of spam over the same time.
I
simply believe this is a big enough problem that people should have the
right to be informed directly by the software maker or network owner, or
the
request for and use of an email address (real or false, and both
unnecessary) during setup of the newsgroups be stopped.

As I see that your email address is not real, I must assume that you do
not
like spam either.

It also doesn't take very long to just check any number of the posts
here from people just looking for help, to see that they have also made
the same mistake of using their real email address. I'm sure they were
tricked into entering it the same as me, and they will learn the same
lessons the hard way. All because in their search for good help, the
"vehicle didn't have a seatbelt WARNING, so to speak". Go ahead check
the posts. Do you think all these people just should have had this
inherent knowledge of how this all works?! They have been tricked, same
as me, and some don't even know it yet!!

A Christmas Wish for safer networks for all of us,
D.


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
I think you might be blaming the wrong people here. I respectfully
suggest that you consider doing some boning up on Usenet before blaming
Microsoft for something that is not their fault.
There is absolutely no reason why your real email address should have
to appear on a newsgroup if you don't want it to appear and more
importantly in this case, have taken the trouble before posting to take
the necessary steps to insure it doesn't appear on a forum.
The use of actual email addresses on Usenet is now and has always been
an option of individual choice. There is absolutely no reason for
Microsoft to suggest to anyone how they should set up their Usenet
account. That option is up to YOU and no one else. It is incumbent on
YOU , NOT Microsoft or anyone else for that matter, to take the time to
learn what has to be learned before arriving on Usenet.
Microsoft is not in the Usenet business. How you set up OE to handle
newsgroups is entirely your choice and your personal responsibility.
Don't blame Microsoft for your own lack of understanding. I
respectfully suggest that you do your homework concerning Usenet. There
are ample sources available from which to obtain this knowledge. If you
intend using Usenet, by all means, learn how to protect yourself.
When it comes to being on line, don't wait to get nailed, then blame
Microsoft for your troubles. Believe me, Microsoft gets blamed for
enough already without you blaming them for things over which they have
no control.
:-))
Not meant to be a flame here....just some "friendly" advice
:-)))))))))))
Dudley Henriques

"Dan" wrote in message
...
This is not a request for assistance, but rather a warning for newer
users here, to hopefully prevent you from the same frustrations I have
experienced as a result of using this forum.

Let me say that I have found this forum EXTREMELY helpful for solving
problems. Bruce Hagen, if he is still around, did an excellent job
assisting me. He also alerted me to the fact that my real email
address was available to all on this forum, BECAUSE MICROSOFT FAILS TO
WARN & INSTRUCT USERS WHEN SETTING UP OUTLOOK EXPRESS TO USE THESE
NEWSGROUPS, that you should NOT, I repeat NOT, NOT, NOT enter your
real email address!!!!!!!!!!

When I set this up, it required me to enter an email address in order
to post here. Nothing warned me that my REAL address would be easily
accessible to all here, NOR did instruct me that I could enter a false
address to thwart the spammers when entering the REQUIRED email
address during sign-up!!!!

Had Microsoft offered this very simple instruction in the beginning, I
am absolutely convinced that I would have NEVER, EVER, received ANY
SPAM!!!! This is on their network afterall, and their NEGLIGENCE to
provide this security information has caused me a great deal of
headache, that now seems will NEVER go away, making me wish I had
never, ever used this newsgroup in the first place!!!

Thank you to Bruce Hagen for recognizing and informing me about this
dangerous security breach. It would have been better if Microsoft were
RESPONSIBLE enough to have given this information in the newsgroup
setup instructions and process!!!!!

The RESULT of this NEGLIGENCE on Microsoft's part is that after just a
few postings before Bruce's alert to me, I am now bombarded on this
email account daily for the last 9 MONTHS by spammers, and ONLY on
this account. I have NEVER received spam on ANY OTHER email account I
have. Many of these spams have been VIRUSES & WORMS!!!! And luckily my
Anti-Virus scanners have been able to remove them. Although I
immediately followed Bruce's intructions to change the email address
displayed, it was too late, and I don't think there is anyway for me
to remove the previous postings with the real email address. So
Microsoft has left me with breach in security which it seems I can
NEVER fix, unless I CANCEL this email account. That is really SAD!!!
and worse yet, it was TOTALLY UNNECESSARY!!!

If Microsoft were honestly SERIOUS about network security, they would
alert ALL people to this security breach before allowing them to use
these newsgroups!!

I don't even want to imagine how much worse this would be if Bruce had
not alerted me to this issue at all, but I hope this message will
possibly assist others in avoiding the headaches I have had.

And Thanks A Lot Microsoft... I thought your mission was to provide
solutions to the masses, not to cause extra problems... but what do I
know anyway.

Best of Luck to All,
Sincerely,
D.

Sorry; every company who writes anything that has anything to do with groups
should be educating their client base about this and the problem goes a lot
further than just MS as you pointed out. Education is key and until it
comes about, this situation won't change.

What the OP may need now is to learn how to handle spam.

Pop`


Dudley Henriques wrote:
Sorry, but nothing in your "War and Peace" post here changes the fact
that it's not Microsoft's responsibility to advise you how to set up
your newsgroup account. Everything in what you have written suggests
that it is your opinion that Microsoft should supply this and that is
fine. It's an opinion. If that's the way you see it, you are
certainly entitled to that opinion and I will be the last person to
try and change it. I learned a long time ago that people who write
"opinions" as long as yours seldom really want those opinions
challenged or changed. The very best to you, and I sincerely hope you
don't get all that
much Spam from the robots. If it's any consolation, the filters are
much better now than they used to be. You should be ok I think.
Take care,
Dudley Henriques


"Dan" wrote in message
...

With all due respect to you Dudley, if any is even warranted in this
case: I do not believe for one minute that I am blaming the wrong people
at all. I
attempted to solve my problems thru my computer manufacturer and
Microsoft without any success... Their answers: "I don't know"

I searched the internet, found a suggestion to try getting advice on
these newsgroups. Excellent suggestion, Mr. Hagen was able to
provide a solution to one main problem, and I was able to deduce
thru reading here, that the other problems were not due to OE, but
rather other problems in the system 'spilling over'

While you may know that there is no reason a real email address
should have
to appear (and perhaps you knew this since you were born thru devine
revelation), you'll have to excuse me if my mind reading
capabilities were a
bit off the day I set up OE for these newsgroups. Of course I am
being sarcastic to make a point here. I do 'understand' what you
have written, so
please take a moment to think thru what I am about to say.

First, as a newer user 9 months ago, I was doing everything I could
to 'research and educate' myself, in order to use my system safely.
While setting up to receive these newsgroups thru OE, the setup
asked me to enter
my email address. Someone who has never used these newsgroups before
would not know in advance that entering a false email address would
still allow interaction. Indeed, most other sites on the internet
would deny you access
until they confirm you email address, and these same sites do not
make your
email public, hence the use of usernames.

While setting up and using the 'help' files and instructions, not
once did it indicate that a REAL email address could or should be
substituted in order to thwart this KNOWN PROBLEM!!!! As it is a
KNOWN PROBLEM, one should
expect the necessary information to be contained in the help and
instruction
files. And by reading the help files and instructions I believe I
have, in your words, "taken the trouble before posting to take the
necessary steps to
insure it doesn't appear on a forum." and "to take the time to learn
what has to be
learned before arriving on Usenet."

As these newsgroups came as a function of the OE software, I believe
it should be incumbent on the manufacturer to provide the necessary
information
to protect our systems and security, which they did NOT! Had they
included
this information about this KNOWN problem while I was "taking the
time to learn what has to be learned", I could have avoided this
trouble. The option
to enter a false address was never presented to me. That IS
NEGLIGENCE. A simple warning about this KNOWN issue during setup
would be SIMPLE for MS to
provide, unless of course they want this behaviour to continue, so
they can
of course sell us additional software to thwart the spammers! Hmmmm!

And, do you believe for one moment that it is absolutely necessary
for these
newsgroups to have to show the text of the email address used during
setup?
As I am looking at yours as I type, I will use it as an example, "From:
"Dudley Henriques" " Not for one
moment do I believe
that is necessary for these groups to function properly. I repeat,
this is a
KNOWN ISSUE. A simple update to the software these groups run on
could replace these email addresses with user names for safer
computing. It really
should be a simple fix. AND I bet I'm not nearly the only one who has
experienced this. REALLY, what is the use of having a false email
address here?? " goes no where, right?! So
what is the purpose of it even having to be there??? Wouldn't a
simple username after the 'From' be enough here?!!

Knowing this problem exists and NOT fixing it on MS's part IS
negligence. They release patches for nearly every other security
problem that is found,
so why ignore this simple solution to thwart the badguys??! Then its
not a problem anymore. I do blame MS here (I don't know of or use
any other company's newsgroups, but I would expect the same of
them). If they do not want to provide a warning in the setup
process, instructions or help files,
then there should be NO REASON to even ask for an email address
during setup, since a valid address is obviously not necessary for
this application
to function, and therefore the necessity of having to enter an email
address
at all (real or false) is misleading to the user, and ONLY serves to
assist
the spammers in their quest!

As you felt the need to express your opinion here under this thread,
I hope
my response will give you pause to consider the logic of my arguments
above.
If I am wrong about the set up instructions in OE, please tell me
where I may find the message that I may input a real or false email
address when I am asked to enter this during set up, and I will
gladly apologize for my ignorance. Otherwise, I will continue to
believe that the fact an email address is even asked for during
setup instead of a username only, IS indeed
an unnecessary hole in the security of the software that should be
patched,
especially since the address serves ZERO useful function. And I will
still contend that despite my attempt at due diligence, the lack of
a warning or proper instructions or notification to this KNOWN
problem IS what has caused
this problem. I guess if I had been gifted with ESP, I may have felt
the need to surf the net for 30 hours until I came across something
that warned
that newsgroups ask you on setup to input an unnecessary email
address that
may or may not be real. Shame on me for thinking that the software
that came
with my computer from a well known company like MS would include any
necessary instructions in its help files to prevent me from
operating the software in an unsecure way, let alone to be mislead
into entering an email
address that is not even necessary.

But since it seems that you do possess these psychic abilities,
could you please provide me with the winning numbers for this
Wednesdays Ontario Lotto
6/49 Draw?? That way I never have to bother you again as I will just
hire someone to find the solutions I need. Maybe I can find and
afford a psychic
for that position!!

But seriously, I do hope my explanation here will give you cause to
rethink
your previous position, and consider that most of the people who
come here looking for answers, do so because of inexperience, and
are also being mislead into opening a hole in their own security.
And perhaps the MS MVP's
who read this may see the logic as well, and report back to MS that
this really should be fixed to improve security for everyone. I've
spent hours a
day for the last 9 months surfing the net at a myriad of sites,
signed up to
many of them and provided the 'necessary' or 'requested' sign-up
information, but I can confidently say that every single piece of
spam I am
bombarded with daily has originated from my sign up HERE as my 5
other email
addresses have never received a single piece of spam over the same
time. I simply believe this is a big enough problem that people
should have the right to be informed directly by the software maker
or network owner, or the
request for and use of an email address (real or false, and both
unnecessary) during setup of the newsgroups be stopped.

As I see that your email address is not real, I must assume that you
do not
like spam either.

It also doesn't take very long to just check any number of the posts
here from people just looking for help, to see that they have also
made the same mistake of using their real email address. I'm sure
they were tricked into entering it the same as me, and they will
learn the same lessons the hard way. All because in their search for
good help, the "vehicle didn't have a seatbelt WARNING, so to
speak". Go ahead check the posts. Do you think all these people just
should have had this inherent knowledge of how this all works?! They
have been tricked, same as me, and some don't even know it yet!!

A Christmas Wish for safer networks for all of us,
D.


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
I think you might be blaming the wrong people here. I respectfully
suggest that you consider doing some boning up on Usenet before
blaming Microsoft for something that is not their fault.
There is absolutely no reason why your real email address should
have to appear on a newsgroup if you don't want it to appear and
more importantly in this case, have taken the trouble before
posting to take the necessary steps to insure it doesn't appear on
a forum. The use of actual email addresses on Usenet is now and has
always
been an option of individual choice. There is absolutely no reason
for Microsoft to suggest to anyone how they should set up their
Usenet account. That option is up to YOU and no one else. It is
incumbent on YOU , NOT Microsoft or anyone else for that matter, to
take the time to learn what has to be learned before arriving on
Usenet. Microsoft is not in the Usenet business. How you set up OE to
handle
newsgroups is entirely your choice and your personal responsibility.
Don't blame Microsoft for your own lack of understanding. I
respectfully suggest that you do your homework concerning Usenet.
There are ample sources available from which to obtain this
knowledge. If you intend using Usenet, by all means, learn how to
protect yourself. When it comes to being on line, don't wait to get
nailed, then blame
Microsoft for your troubles. Believe me, Microsoft gets blamed for
enough already without you blaming them for things over which they
have no control.
:-))
Not meant to be a flame here....just some "friendly" advice
:-))))))))))) Dudley Henriques

"Dan" wrote in message
...
This is not a request for assistance, but rather a warning for
newer users here, to hopefully prevent you from the same
frustrations I have experienced as a result of using this forum.

Let me say that I have found this forum EXTREMELY helpful for
solving problems. Bruce Hagen, if he is still around, did an
excellent job assisting me. He also alerted me to the fact that my
real email address was available to all on this forum, BECAUSE
MICROSOFT FAILS TO WARN & INSTRUCT USERS WHEN SETTING UP OUTLOOK
EXPRESS TO USE THESE NEWSGROUPS, that you should NOT, I repeat
NOT, NOT, NOT enter your real email address!!!!!!!!!!

When I set this up, it required me to enter an email address in
order to post here. Nothing warned me that my REAL address would
be easily accessible to all here, NOR did instruct me that I could
enter a false address to thwart the spammers when entering the
REQUIRED email address during sign-up!!!!

Had Microsoft offered this very simple instruction in the
beginning, I am absolutely convinced that I would have NEVER,
EVER, received ANY SPAM!!!! This is on their network afterall, and
their NEGLIGENCE to provide this security information has caused
me a great deal of headache, that now seems will NEVER go away,
making me wish I had never, ever used this newsgroup in the first
place!!! Thank you to Bruce Hagen for recognizing and informing me
about
this dangerous security breach. It would have been better if
Microsoft were RESPONSIBLE enough to have given this information
in the newsgroup setup instructions and process!!!!!

The RESULT of this NEGLIGENCE on Microsoft's part is that after
just a few postings before Bruce's alert to me, I am now bombarded
on this email account daily for the last 9 MONTHS by spammers, and
ONLY on this account. I have NEVER received spam on ANY OTHER
email account I have. Many of these spams have been VIRUSES &
WORMS!!!! And luckily my Anti-Virus scanners have been able to
remove them. Although I immediately followed Bruce's intructions
to change the email address displayed, it was too late, and I
don't think there is anyway for me to remove the previous postings
with the real email address. So Microsoft has left me with breach
in security which it seems I can NEVER fix, unless I CANCEL this
email account. That is really SAD!!! and worse yet, it was TOTALLY
UNNECESSARY!!! If Microsoft were honestly SERIOUS about network
security, they
would alert ALL people to this security breach before allowing
them to use these newsgroups!!

I don't even want to imagine how much worse this would be if Bruce
had not alerted me to this issue at all, but I hope this message
will possibly assist others in avoiding the headaches I have had.

And Thanks A Lot Microsoft... I thought your mission was to provide
solutions to the masses, not to cause extra problems... but what
do I know anyway.

Best of Luck to All,
Sincerely,
D.

What the OP should learn first is not to write *epistles* that are over
200 lines long.....I got bored after 40.

And his problem would be easily solved if he just changed his email
address so that he no longer gets spam on it. Don't know about his ISP,
but I get 7 or 10, plus a bunch of throwaway accounts with mine
(Rogers).

Before they implemented anti-spam devices, I got 100 spam/day on average
and used Mailwasher to get rid of them. ** Eureka, he could use that
program to vet his email. But the last time I advocated using it, some
dickbrain MVP (Corey, Carey?) on the XP groups accused me of shilling
for them....lol.

Off to do some Christmassy stuff.....Heather

"Pop`" wrote in message
...
Sorry; every company who writes anything that has anything to do with
groups should be educating their client base about this and the
problem goes a lot further than just MS as you pointed out. Education
is key and until it comes about, this situation won't change.

What the OP may need now is to learn how to handle spam.

Pop`


Dudley Henriques wrote:
Sorry, but nothing in your "War and Peace" post here changes the fact
that it's not Microsoft's responsibility to advise you how to set up
your newsgroup account. Everything in what you have written suggests
that it is your opinion that Microsoft should supply this and that is
fine. It's an opinion. If that's the way you see it, you are
certainly entitled to that opinion and I will be the last person to
try and change it. I learned a long time ago that people who write
"opinions" as long as yours seldom really want those opinions
challenged or changed. The very best to you, and I sincerely hope you
don't get all that
much Spam from the robots. If it's any consolation, the filters are
much better now than they used to be. You should be ok I think.
Take care,
Dudley Henriques


"Dan" wrote in message
...

With all due respect to you Dudley, if any is even warranted in this
case: I do not believe for one minute that I am blaming the wrong
people
at all. I
attempted to solve my problems thru my computer manufacturer and
Microsoft without any success... Their answers: "I don't know"

I searched the internet, found a suggestion to try getting advice on
these newsgroups. Excellent suggestion, Mr. Hagen was able to
provide a solution to one main problem, and I was able to deduce
thru reading here, that the other problems were not due to OE, but
rather other problems in the system 'spilling over'

While you may know that there is no reason a real email address
should have
to appear (and perhaps you knew this since you were born thru devine
revelation), you'll have to excuse me if my mind reading
capabilities were a
bit off the day I set up OE for these newsgroups. Of course I am
being sarcastic to make a point here. I do 'understand' what you
have written, so
please take a moment to think thru what I am about to say.

First, as a newer user 9 months ago, I was doing everything I could
to 'research and educate' myself, in order to use my system safely.
While setting up to receive these newsgroups thru OE, the setup
asked me to enter
my email address. Someone who has never used these newsgroups before
would not know in advance that entering a false email address would
still allow interaction. Indeed, most other sites on the internet
would deny you access
until they confirm you email address, and these same sites do not
make your
email public, hence the use of usernames.

While setting up and using the 'help' files and instructions, not
once did it indicate that a REAL email address could or should be
substituted in order to thwart this KNOWN PROBLEM!!!! As it is a
KNOWN PROBLEM, one should
expect the necessary information to be contained in the help and
instruction
files. And by reading the help files and instructions I believe I
have, in your words, "taken the trouble before posting to take the
necessary steps to
insure it doesn't appear on a forum." and "to take the time to learn
what has to be
learned before arriving on Usenet."

As these newsgroups came as a function of the OE software, I believe
it should be incumbent on the manufacturer to provide the necessary
information
to protect our systems and security, which they did NOT! Had they
included
this information about this KNOWN problem while I was "taking the
time to learn what has to be learned", I could have avoided this
trouble. The option
to enter a false address was never presented to me. That IS
NEGLIGENCE. A simple warning about this KNOWN issue during setup
would be SIMPLE for MS to
provide, unless of course they want this behaviour to continue, so
they can
of course sell us additional software to thwart the spammers! Hmmmm!

And, do you believe for one moment that it is absolutely necessary
for these
newsgroups to have to show the text of the email address used during
setup?
As I am looking at yours as I type, I will use it as an example,
"From: "Dudley Henriques" " Not for one
moment do I believe
that is necessary for these groups to function properly. I repeat,
this is a
KNOWN ISSUE. A simple update to the software these groups run on
could replace these email addresses with user names for safer
computing. It really
should be a simple fix. AND I bet I'm not nearly the only one who
has
experienced this. REALLY, what is the use of having a false email
address here?? " goes no where, right?! So
what is the purpose of it even having to be there??? Wouldn't a
simple username after the 'From' be enough here?!!

Knowing this problem exists and NOT fixing it on MS's part IS
negligence. They release patches for nearly every other security
problem that is found,
so why ignore this simple solution to thwart the badguys??! Then its
not a problem anymore. I do blame MS here (I don't know of or use
any other company's newsgroups, but I would expect the same of
them). If they do not want to provide a warning in the setup
process, instructions or help files,
then there should be NO REASON to even ask for an email address
during setup, since a valid address is obviously not necessary for
this application
to function, and therefore the necessity of having to enter an email
address
at all (real or false) is misleading to the user, and ONLY serves to
assist
the spammers in their quest!

As you felt the need to express your opinion here under this thread,
I hope
my response will give you pause to consider the logic of my
arguments
above.
If I am wrong about the set up instructions in OE, please tell me
where I may find the message that I may input a real or false email
address when I am asked to enter this during set up, and I will
gladly apologize for my ignorance. Otherwise, I will continue to
believe that the fact an email address is even asked for during
setup instead of a username only, IS indeed
an unnecessary hole in the security of the software that should be
patched,
especially since the address serves ZERO useful function. And I will
still contend that despite my attempt at due diligence, the lack of
a warning or proper instructions or notification to this KNOWN
problem IS what has caused
this problem. I guess if I had been gifted with ESP, I may have felt
the need to surf the net for 30 hours until I came across something
that warned
that newsgroups ask you on setup to input an unnecessary email
address that
may or may not be real. Shame on me for thinking that the software
that came
with my computer from a well known company like MS would include any
necessary instructions in its help files to prevent me from
operating the software in an unsecure way, let alone to be mislead
into entering an email
address that is not even necessary.

But since it seems that you do possess these psychic abilities,
could you please provide me with the winning numbers for this
Wednesdays Ontario Lotto
6/49 Draw?? That way I never have to bother you again as I will just
hire someone to find the solutions I need. Maybe I can find and
afford a psychic
for that position!!

But seriously, I do hope my explanation here will give you cause to
rethink
your previous position, and consider that most of the people who
come here looking for answers, do so because of inexperience, and
are also being mislead into opening a hole in their own security.
And perhaps the MS MVP's
who read this may see the logic as well, and report back to MS that
this really should be fixed to improve security for everyone. I've
spent hours a
day for the last 9 months surfing the net at a myriad of sites,
signed up to
many of them and provided the 'necessary' or 'requested' sign-up
information, but I can confidently say that every single piece of
spam I am
bombarded with daily has originated from my sign up HERE as my 5
other email
addresses have never received a single piece of spam over the same
time. I simply believe this is a big enough problem that people
should have the right to be informed directly by the software maker
or network owner, or the
request for and use of an email address (real or false, and both
unnecessary) during setup of the newsgroups be stopped.

As I see that your email address is not real, I must assume that you
do not
like spam either.

It also doesn't take very long to just check any number of the posts
here from people just looking for help, to see that they have also
made the same mistake of using their real email address. I'm sure
they were tricked into entering it the same as me, and they will
learn the same lessons the hard way. All because in their search for
good help, the "vehicle didn't have a seatbelt WARNING, so to
speak". Go ahead check the posts. Do you think all these people just
should have had this inherent knowledge of how this all works?! They
have been tricked, same as me, and some don't even know it yet!!

A Christmas Wish for safer networks for all of us,
D.


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
I think you might be blaming the wrong people here. I respectfully
suggest that you consider doing some boning up on Usenet before
blaming Microsoft for something that is not their fault.
There is absolutely no reason why your real email address should
have to appear on a newsgroup if you don't want it to appear and
more importantly in this case, have taken the trouble before
posting to take the necessary steps to insure it doesn't appear on
a forum. The use of actual email addresses on Usenet is now and has
always
been an option of individual choice. There is absolutely no reason
for Microsoft to suggest to anyone how they should set up their
Usenet account. That option is up to YOU and no one else. It is
incumbent on YOU , NOT Microsoft or anyone else for that matter, to
take the time to learn what has to be learned before arriving on
Usenet. Microsoft is not in the Usenet business. How you set up OE
to handle
newsgroups is entirely your choice and your personal
responsibility.
Don't blame Microsoft for your own lack of understanding. I
respectfully suggest that you do your homework concerning Usenet.
There are ample sources available from which to obtain this
knowledge. If you intend using Usenet, by all means, learn how to
protect yourself. When it comes to being on line, don't wait to get
nailed, then blame
Microsoft for your troubles. Believe me, Microsoft gets blamed for
enough already without you blaming them for things over which they
have no control.
:-))
Not meant to be a flame here....just some "friendly" advice
:-))))))))))) Dudley Henriques

"Dan" wrote in message
...
This is not a request for assistance, but rather a warning for
newer users here, to hopefully prevent you from the same
frustrations I have experienced as a result of using this forum.

Let me say that I have found this forum EXTREMELY helpful for
solving problems. Bruce Hagen, if he is still around, did an
excellent job assisting me. He also alerted me to the fact that my
real email address was available to all on this forum, BECAUSE
MICROSOFT FAILS TO WARN & INSTRUCT USERS WHEN SETTING UP OUTLOOK
EXPRESS TO USE THESE NEWSGROUPS, that you should NOT, I repeat
NOT, NOT, NOT enter your real email address!!!!!!!!!!

When I set this up, it required me to enter an email address in
order to post here. Nothing warned me that my REAL address would
be easily accessible to all here, NOR did instruct me that I could
enter a false address to thwart the spammers when entering the
REQUIRED email address during sign-up!!!!

Had Microsoft offered this very simple instruction in the
beginning, I am absolutely convinced that I would have NEVER,
EVER, received ANY SPAM!!!! This is on their network afterall, and
their NEGLIGENCE to provide this security information has caused
me a great deal of headache, that now seems will NEVER go away,
making me wish I had never, ever used this newsgroup in the first
place!!! Thank you to Bruce Hagen for recognizing and informing me
about
this dangerous security breach. It would have been better if
Microsoft were RESPONSIBLE enough to have given this information
in the newsgroup setup instructions and process!!!!!

The RESULT of this NEGLIGENCE on Microsoft's part is that after
just a few postings before Bruce's alert to me, I am now bombarded
on this email account daily for the last 9 MONTHS by spammers, and
ONLY on this account. I have NEVER received spam on ANY OTHER
email account I have. Many of these spams have been VIRUSES &
WORMS!!!! And luckily my Anti-Virus scanners have been able to
remove them. Although I immediately followed Bruce's intructions
to change the email address displayed, it was too late, and I
don't think there is anyway for me to remove the previous postings
with the real email address. So Microsoft has left me with breach
in security which it seems I can NEVER fix, unless I CANCEL this
email account. That is really SAD!!! and worse yet, it was TOTALLY
UNNECESSARY!!! If Microsoft were honestly SERIOUS about network
security, they
would alert ALL people to this security breach before allowing
them to use these newsgroups!!

I don't even want to imagine how much worse this would be if Bruce
had not alerted me to this issue at all, but I hope this message
will possibly assist others in avoiding the headaches I have had.

And Thanks A Lot Microsoft... I thought your mission was to
provide
solutions to the masses, not to cause extra problems... but what
do I know anyway.

Best of Luck to All,
Sincerely,
D.

"Dan" wrote in message
...

With all due respect to you Dudley, if any is even warranted in this case:

I do not believe for one minute that I am blaming the wrong people at all.
I
attempted to solve my problems thru my computer manufacturer and Microsoft
without any success... Their answers: "I don't know"

I searched the internet, found a suggestion to try getting advice on these
newsgroups. Excellent suggestion, Mr. Hagen was able to provide a solution
to one main problem, and I was able to deduce thru reading here, that the
other problems were not due to OE, but rather other problems in the system
'spilling over'

While you may know that there is no reason a real email address should
have
to appear (and perhaps you knew this since you were born thru devine
revelation), you'll have to excuse me if my mind reading capabilities were
a
bit off the day I set up OE for these newsgroups. Of course I am being
sarcastic to make a point here. I do 'understand' what you have written,
so
please take a moment to think thru what I am about to say.

First, as a newer user 9 months ago, I was doing everything I could to
'research and educate' myself, in order to use my system safely. While
setting up to receive these newsgroups thru OE, the setup asked me to
enter
my email address. Someone who has never used these newsgroups before would
not know in advance that entering a false email address would still allow
interaction. Indeed, most other sites on the internet would deny you
access
until they confirm you email address, and these same sites do not make
your
email public, hence the use of usernames.

While setting up and using the 'help' files and instructions, not once did
it indicate that a REAL email address could or should be substituted in
order to thwart this KNOWN PROBLEM!!!! As it is a KNOWN PROBLEM, one
should
expect the necessary information to be contained in the help and
instruction
files. And by reading the help files and instructions I believe I have, in
your words, "taken the trouble before posting to take the necessary steps
to
insure it doesn't appear on a forum." and "to take the time to learn what
has to be
learned before arriving on Usenet."

As these newsgroups came as a function of the OE software, I believe it
should be incumbent on the manufacturer to provide the necessary
information
to protect our systems and security, which they did NOT! Had they
included
this information about this KNOWN problem while I was "taking the time to
learn what has to be learned", I could have avoided this trouble. The
option
to enter a false address was never presented to me. That IS NEGLIGENCE. A
simple warning about this KNOWN issue during setup would be SIMPLE for MS
to
provide, unless of course they want this behaviour to continue, so they
can
of course sell us additional software to thwart the spammers! Hmmmm!

And, do you believe for one moment that it is absolutely necessary for
these
newsgroups to have to show the text of the email address used during
setup?
As I am looking at yours as I type, I will use it as an example, "From:
"Dudley Henriques" " Not for one moment do I
believe
that is necessary for these groups to function properly. I repeat, this is
a
KNOWN ISSUE. A simple update to the software these groups run on could
replace these email addresses with user names for safer computing. It
really
should be a simple fix. AND I bet I'm not nearly the only one who has
experienced this. REALLY, what is the use of having a false email address
here?? " goes no where, right?! So what is the
purpose of it even having to be there??? Wouldn't a simple username after
the 'From' be enough here?!!

Knowing this problem exists and NOT fixing it on MS's part IS negligence.
They release patches for nearly every other security problem that is
found,
so why ignore this simple solution to thwart the badguys??! Then its not a
problem anymore. I do blame MS here (I don't know of or use any other
company's newsgroups, but I would expect the same of them). If they do not
want to provide a warning in the setup process, instructions or help
files,
then there should be NO REASON to even ask for an email address during
setup, since a valid address is obviously not necessary for this
application
to function, and therefore the necessity of having to enter an email
address
at all (real or false) is misleading to the user, and ONLY serves to
assist
the spammers in their quest!

As you felt the need to express your opinion here under this thread, I
hope
my response will give you pause to consider the logic of my arguments
above.
If I am wrong about the set up instructions in OE, please tell me where I
may find the message that I may input a real or false email address when I
am asked to enter this during set up, and I will gladly apologize for my
ignorance. Otherwise, I will continue to believe that the fact an email
address is even asked for during setup instead of a username only, IS
indeed
an unnecessary hole in the security of the software that should be
patched,
especially since the address serves ZERO useful function. And I will still
contend that despite my attempt at due diligence, the lack of a warning or
proper instructions or notification to this KNOWN problem IS what has
caused
this problem. I guess if I had been gifted with ESP, I may have felt the
need to surf the net for 30 hours until I came across something that
warned
that newsgroups ask you on setup to input an unnecessary email address
that
may or may not be real. Shame on me for thinking that the software that
came
with my computer from a well known company like MS would include any
necessary instructions in its help files to prevent me from operating the
software in an unsecure way, let alone to be mislead into entering an
email
address that is not even necessary.

But since it seems that you do possess these psychic abilities, could you
please provide me with the winning numbers for this Wednesdays Ontario
Lotto
6/49 Draw?? That way I never have to bother you again as I will just hire
someone to find the solutions I need. Maybe I can find and afford a
psychic
for that position!!

But seriously, I do hope my explanation here will give you cause to
rethink
your previous position, and consider that most of the people who come here
looking for answers, do so because of inexperience, and are also being
mislead into opening a hole in their own security. And perhaps the MS
MVP's
who read this may see the logic as well, and report back to MS that this
really should be fixed to improve security for everyone. I've spent hours
a
day for the last 9 months surfing the net at a myriad of sites, signed up
to
many of them and provided the 'necessary' or 'requested' sign-up
information, but I can confidently say that every single piece of spam I
am
bombarded with daily has originated from my sign up HERE as my 5 other
email
addresses have never received a single piece of spam over the same time. I
simply believe this is a big enough problem that people should have the
right to be informed directly by the software maker or network owner, or
the
request for and use of an email address (real or false, and both
unnecessary) during setup of the newsgroups be stopped.

As I see that your email address is not real, I must assume that you do
not
like spam either.

It also doesn't take very long to just check any number of the posts here
from people just looking for help, to see that they have also made the
same mistake of using their real email address. I'm sure they were tricked
into entering it the same as me, and they will learn the same lessons the
hard way. All because in their search for good help, the "vehicle didn't
have a seatbelt WARNING, so to speak". Go ahead check the posts. Do you
think all these people just should have had this inherent knowledge of how
this all works?! They have been tricked, same as me, and some don't even
know it yet!!

A Christmas Wish for safer networks for all of us,
D.


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
I think you might be blaming the wrong people here. I respectfully suggest
that you consider doing some boning up on Usenet before blaming Microsoft
for something that is not their fault.
There is absolutely no reason why your real email address should have to
appear on a newsgroup if you don't want it to appear and more importantly
in this case, have taken the trouble before posting to take the necessary
steps to insure it doesn't appear on a forum.
The use of actual email addresses on Usenet is now and has always been an
option of individual choice. There is absolutely no reason for Microsoft
to suggest to anyone how they should set up their Usenet account. That
option is up to YOU and no one else. It is incumbent on YOU , NOT
Microsoft or anyone else for that matter, to take the time to learn what
has to be learned before arriving on Usenet.
Microsoft is not in the Usenet business. How you set up OE to handle
newsgroups is entirely your choice and your personal responsibility.
Don't blame Microsoft for your own lack of understanding. I respectfully
suggest that you do your homework concerning Usenet. There are ample
sources available from which to obtain this knowledge. If you intend
using Usenet, by all means, learn how to protect yourself.
When it comes to being on line, don't wait to get nailed, then blame
Microsoft for your troubles. Believe me, Microsoft gets blamed for enough
already without you blaming them for things over which they have no
control.
:-))
Not meant to be a flame here....just some "friendly" advice :-)))))))))))
Dudley Henriques

"Dan" wrote in message
...
This is not a request for assistance, but rather a warning for newer
users here, to hopefully prevent you from the same frustrations I have
experienced as a result of using this forum.

Let me say that I have found this forum EXTREMELY helpful for solving
problems. Bruce Hagen, if he is still around, did an excellent job
assisting me. He also alerted me to the fact that my real email address
was available to all on this forum, BECAUSE MICROSOFT FAILS TO WARN &
INSTRUCT USERS WHEN SETTING UP OUTLOOK EXPRESS TO USE THESE NEWSGROUPS,
that you should NOT, I repeat NOT, NOT, NOT enter your real email
address!!!!!!!!!!

When I set this up, it required me to enter an email address in order to
post here. Nothing warned me that my REAL address would be easily
accessible to all here, NOR did instruct me that I could enter a false
address to thwart the spammers when entering the REQUIRED email address
during sign-up!!!!

Had Microsoft offered this very simple instruction in the beginning, I
am absolutely convinced that I would have NEVER, EVER, received ANY
SPAM!!!! This is on their network afterall, and their NEGLIGENCE to
provide this security information has caused me a great deal of
headache, that now seems will NEVER go away, making me wish I had never,
ever used this newsgroup in the first place!!!

Thank you to Bruce Hagen for recognizing and informing me about this
dangerous security breach. It would have been better if Microsoft were
RESPONSIBLE enough to have given this information in the newsgroup setup
instructions and process!!!!!

The RESULT of this NEGLIGENCE on Microsoft's part is that after just a
few postings before Bruce's alert to me, I am now bombarded on this
email account daily for the last 9 MONTHS by spammers, and ONLY on this
account. I have NEVER received spam on ANY OTHER email account I have.
Many of these spams have been VIRUSES & WORMS!!!! And luckily my
Anti-Virus scanners have been able to remove them. Although I
immediately followed Bruce's intructions to change the email address
displayed, it was too late, and I don't think there is anyway for me to
remove the previous postings with the real email address. So Microsoft
has left me with breach in security which it seems I can NEVER fix,
unless I CANCEL this email account. That is really SAD!!! and worse yet,
it was TOTALLY UNNECESSARY!!!

If Microsoft were honestly SERIOUS about network security, they would
alert ALL people to this security breach before allowing them to use
these newsgroups!!

I don't even want to imagine how much worse this would be if Bruce had
not alerted me to this issue at all, but I hope this message will
possibly assist others in avoiding the headaches I have had.

And Thanks A Lot Microsoft... I thought your mission was to provide
solutions to the masses, not to cause extra problems... but what do I
know anyway.

Best of Luck to All,
Sincerely,
D.

For those who followed this thread with interest:

I was told that I should not blame Microsoft for not including in their full
disclosure in their 'Help' files about how to SAFELY setup the newsreader in
THEIR product (OE) for use on THEIR public newsgroup network. To quote:
"There is absolutely no reason for Microsoft to suggest to anyone how they
should set up their Usenet account. That option is up to YOU and no one
else. It is incumbent on YOU , NOT Microsoft or
anyone else for that matter, to take the time to learn what has to be
learned before arriving on Usenet."

It was suggested to me to "do your homework". I have reviewed once again the
help files in OE, and they do NOT provide any information at all about
protecting yourself from the spam harvesters by entering a false email
address. EVEN though they know this is a persistent problem, and one of the
most common causes of spam, and the resulting security threats such as
viruses that come with it! All they would have to do is include this
'suggestion' of using a false address in their help file to put an end to a
great deal of this. This information was not provided to me until it was too
late, and only because an MVP here noticed my mistake and kindly informed
me.

I was further told that, "There are ample sources available from which to
obtain this knowledge. If you intend using Usenet, by all means, learn how
to protect yourself." Most people would expect the instructions (help files)
in a respected software manufacturers product to contain 'safe' instructions
for the setup of that products features, but as I have noted above,such do
not exist despite the 'known' problems. The problem lies in the fact that
the 'known' problem is only common knowledge to those already using
newsgroups. As NEW users set up their newsreader accounts, they do not
necessarily know of the problem, so why would they go searching for these
"ample sources" if they don't know the problem exists in the first place.
Like myself at the time, they will find out the hard way as the spam starts
pouring in, and like myself, will be wondering why they were not warned
first, and also why the setup protocol required the input of an email
address when it is clearly not necessary to participate here.

As the person who suggested to me that it was my own fault for somehow not
intuitively knowing all this in advance, and same person could not provide
any links these 'ample sources... of knowledge", I went looking. I found
these links that provide instructions for setting up newsgroup accounts:
http://www.insideoe.com/resources/co...tm#setupmsnews

http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/ie/...groups101.mspx

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/...ups/howto.mspx

Checking them, you will note the first one instructs you to "enter AN email
address" and the 3rd one (from the Microsoft site) instructs you to "enter
YOUR email address" !!! NO mention is made that you do NOT "need" to enter
your ACTUAL email address, nor a suggestion to enter something false for
your own computer security, despite the fact Microsoft KNOWS of this
problem. These setup instructions deceptively suggest you enter your email
address as if it is a necessary part of the setup to use the service, when
it is NOT!!



Indeed, I did find ONE site that did provide proper setup instructions for
the newsreader at the site of an MVP
hehttp://www.michaelstevenstech.com/ou...snewreader.htm and you
will note that he made sure this warning was clear and obvious by its
diferent coloured large red type! Kudos to him for providing full
disclosure! This MVP recognizes that people who need setup instructions also
need this warning in advance. Unfortunately, this problem is not common
knowledge among the general population, so most of us do not know to go
searching for additional setup information when there is zero indication of
this threat in the first place. There is no reason for anyone to search for
a solution (as was suggested to me) if one doesn't know there is even a
problem. Of course I know of the problem now thru learning the hard way, all
because Microsoft omitted to inform me thru the OE help files when I went
thru THEIR setup protocol to use the newsreader.



I think I have made my point now, with appropriate references to back it up.
I do truly hope this post will help at least a few people to avoid the
problems which Microsoft's negligence has caused me



D.





"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
I think you might be blaming the wrong people here. I respectfully suggest
that you consider doing some boning up on Usenet before blaming Microsoft
for something that is not their fault.
There is absolutely no reason why your real email address should have to
appear on a newsgroup if you don't want it to appear and more importantly
in this case, have taken the trouble before posting to take the necessary
steps to insure it doesn't appear on a forum.
The use of actual email addresses on Usenet is now and has always been an
option of individual choice. There is absolutely no reason for Microsoft
to suggest to anyone how they should set up their Usenet account. That
option is up to YOU and no one else. It is incumbent on YOU , NOT
Microsoft or anyone else for that matter, to take the time to learn what
has to be learned before arriving on Usenet.
Microsoft is not in the Usenet business. How you set up OE to handle
newsgroups is entirely your choice and your personal responsibility.
Don't blame Microsoft for your own lack of understanding. I respectfully
suggest that you do your homework concerning Usenet. There are ample
sources available from which to obtain this knowledge. If you intend using
Usenet, by all means, learn how to protect yourself.
When it comes to being on line, don't wait to get nailed, then blame
Microsoft for your troubles. Believe me, Microsoft gets blamed for enough
already without you blaming them for things over which they have no
control.
:-))
Not meant to be a flame here....just some "friendly" advice :-)))))))))))
Dudley Henriques

"Dan" wrote in message
...
This is not a request for assistance, but rather a warning for newer
users here, to hopefully prevent you from the same frustrations I have
experienced as a result of using this forum.

Let me say that I have found this forum EXTREMELY helpful for solving
problems. Bruce Hagen, if he is still around, did an excellent job
assisting me. He also alerted me to the fact that my real email address
was available to all on this forum, BECAUSE MICROSOFT FAILS TO WARN &
INSTRUCT USERS WHEN SETTING UP OUTLOOK EXPRESS TO USE THESE NEWSGROUPS,
that you should NOT, I repeat NOT, NOT, NOT enter your real email
address!!!!!!!!!!

When I set this up, it required me to enter an email address in order to
post here. Nothing warned me that my REAL address would be easily
accessible to all here, NOR did instruct me that I could enter a false
address to thwart the spammers when entering the REQUIRED email address
during sign-up!!!!

Had Microsoft offered this very simple instruction in the beginning, I am
absolutely convinced that I would have NEVER, EVER, received ANY SPAM!!!!
This is on their network afterall, and their NEGLIGENCE to provide this
security information has caused me a great deal of headache, that now
seems will NEVER go away, making me wish I had never, ever used this
newsgroup in the first place!!!

Thank you to Bruce Hagen for recognizing and informing me about this
dangerous security breach. It would have been better if Microsoft were
RESPONSIBLE enough to have given this information in the newsgroup setup
instructions and process!!!!!

The RESULT of this NEGLIGENCE on Microsoft's part is that after just a
few postings before Bruce's alert to me, I am now bombarded on this email
account daily for the last 9 MONTHS by spammers, and ONLY on this
account. I have NEVER received spam on ANY OTHER email account I have.
Many of these spams have been VIRUSES & WORMS!!!! And luckily my
Anti-Virus scanners have been able to remove them. Although I immediately
followed Bruce's intructions to change the email address displayed, it
was too late, and I don't think there is anyway for me to remove the
previous postings with the real email address. So Microsoft has left me
with breach in security which it seems I can NEVER fix, unless I CANCEL
this email account. That is really SAD!!! and worse yet, it was TOTALLY
UNNECESSARY!!!

If Microsoft were honestly SERIOUS about network security, they would
alert ALL people to this security breach before allowing them to use
these newsgroups!!

I don't even want to imagine how much worse this would be if Bruce had
not alerted me to this issue at all, but I hope this message will
possibly assist others in avoiding the headaches I have had.

And Thanks A Lot Microsoft... I thought your mission was to provide
solutions to the masses, not to cause extra problems... but what do I
know anyway.

Best of Luck to All,
Sincerely,
D.

You're a little "ranty", but I'm still glad you posted here.

First off, you're not talking to MS here; it's -just- a newsgroup. Second,
you're right about not knowing ahead of time, and you should have.
Education is the only answer to this problem and no one really tries very
hard that has the ability to reach the masses; it isn't just MS. Third,
it's hidden, but MS does have such advice; you just won't find it easily.
Education is key.
The advice to not enter your real email address is because of
bottom-feeding bass turds who scrape names from groups, as you already know.
However, that wasn't the case when such programs were originally written.
You can use a made up name such as lid, or if you
actually want to get emails from a group (unusual and not advised), then at
best use a throw-away account from one of hte many freebie offereings around
the 'net.

Lastly, it's likely some of your spam came from ng posts here, but there
are many other sources and since you're obviously a newbie to many things
yet, there is still a lot to learn. I'd start at:
http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html
Be patient and read the whole thing.

Also: This is not a forum: It's a newsgroup. Forums are graphics based
readers for something -like- a newgroup, but are different. You can look
them up wikipedia.org.

Yes, this is a very helpful ng and Bruce is one of the best posters here.
He posts a lot, and volunteers considerable time to this group and others
too. I'm sure your comments are appreciated by Bruce.

Personally I don't consider it negligence on the part of MS. I consider it
illegal activity by bottom-feeding bass turds who have no redeeming
qualities of any kind.

And again, this isn't MS people here; most are just volunteers who went thru
the same steps you are going thru; until we get more education in the world,
it will continue too, since it's not just MS, but ALL web clients who are
guilty of this sort of "missing info"| with only a couple of exceptions.

Pop`


Dan wrote:
This is not a request for assistance, but rather a warning for newer
users here, to hopefully prevent you from the same frustrations I
have experienced as a result of using this forum.

Let me say that I have found this forum EXTREMELY helpful for solving
problems. Bruce Hagen, if he is still around, did an excellent job
assisting me. He also alerted me to the fact that my real email
address was available to all on this forum, BECAUSE MICROSOFT FAILS
TO WARN & INSTRUCT USERS WHEN SETTING UP OUTLOOK EXPRESS TO USE THESE
NEWSGROUPS, that you should NOT, I repeat NOT, NOT, NOT enter your
real email address!!!!!!!!!!
When I set this up, it required me to enter an email address in order
to post here. Nothing warned me that my REAL address would be easily
accessible to all here, NOR did instruct me that I could enter a
false address to thwart the spammers when entering the REQUIRED email
address during sign-up!!!!

Had Microsoft offered this very simple instruction in the beginning,
I am absolutely convinced that I would have NEVER, EVER, received ANY
SPAM!!!! This is on their network afterall, and their NEGLIGENCE to
provide this security information has caused me a great deal of
headache, that now seems will NEVER go away, making me wish I had
never, ever used this newsgroup in the first place!!!

Thank you to Bruce Hagen for recognizing and informing me about this
dangerous security breach. It would have been better if Microsoft were
RESPONSIBLE enough to have given this information in the newsgroup
setup instructions and process!!!!!

The RESULT of this NEGLIGENCE on Microsoft's part is that after just
a few postings before Bruce's alert to me, I am now bombarded on this
email account daily for the last 9 MONTHS by spammers, and ONLY on
this account. I have NEVER received spam on ANY OTHER email account I
have. Many of these spams have been VIRUSES & WORMS!!!! And luckily
my Anti-Virus scanners have been able to remove them. Although I
immediately followed Bruce's intructions to change the email address
displayed, it was too late, and I don't think there is anyway for me
to remove the previous postings with the real email address. So
Microsoft has left me with breach in security which it seems I can
NEVER fix, unless I CANCEL this email account. That is really SAD!!!
and worse yet, it was TOTALLY UNNECESSARY!!!
If Microsoft were honestly SERIOUS about network security, they would
alert ALL people to this security breach before allowing them to use
these newsgroups!!

I don't even want to imagine how much worse this would be if Bruce
had not alerted me to this issue at all, but I hope this message will
possibly assist others in avoiding the headaches I have had.

And Thanks A Lot Microsoft... I thought your mission was to provide
solutions to the masses, not to cause extra problems... but what do I
know anyway.

Best of Luck to All,
Sincerely,
D.

Thanks for the support also Pop, my only point from the beginning was that I
believe better disclosure is warranted in the ng setup instructions in the
help files. My only reason for the original post was to warn other newbies
about this undisclosed risk, and was rather surprised that my position was
attacked by those in the know. I have only used this email account on just
this one ng, nothing else, and only 2 posts before Bruce warned me about the
problem. So I do know positively that all the spam is the result of those 2
posts.That was 9 months ago and I get so much spam from those 2 posts that
some of it still gets through 3 filters including McAfee SpamKiller and the
filter at my ISP. None of my other 5 accounts have received a single piece
of spam in the same time, and I spend hours a day on the net and use the
other accounts extensively. I know I can change the address to stop the spam
completely, but I have my reasons for keeping this address, for now. I know
I'm not talking to MS here, was just hoping the advice may help a few other
new users. Like you said, I know the info is out their now, just not easily
found, and not where and when its needed.

I have seen that you volunteer, what I consider a great deal of time here to
helping others as well, and I agree that the true problem is the bottom
feeders, but the lack of action to combat this is only assisting them, and I
do think that a simple warning (education as you put it) would go along way
to help. And, I don't think this warning in an obvious place would be very
difficult or costly at all to implement. I am aware that are other web
client are guilty of the same, but I can not speak to those with which I am
unfamiliar. I've been around a little while now, but certainly I do not know
everything and I enjoy learning new things. Thanks for the link you
provided, I have educated myself to most of it previously, but every new
page I see adds a little bit more to that knowledge, and is much
appreciated.

Sorry if I was a little 'ranty', but I never imagined this would turn into
such an issue. I kinda thought most regulars here would just leave this
alone and let it be a good notice to the newbies who made the same mistake
as me. And I did state that I was not asking for advice at the beginning of
the original post, and while the posts may be rather longer than usual, no
one is obligated to read them (I'm sure one click would have 'ignored' all
subsequent posts), but some sure seemed to feel the need to respond to them
anyway. LOL.Thanks for the comment also about "sort of liking" my posts.
Unfortunately, my free time is just about up, so I'll have to let this take
its own path now. I'll try to check back to see if anything gets
interesting, but I suspect I won't have time to say much else with the
holidays on top of work.

Thank you to all of you who volunteer your valuable time here to helping
others. It truly is the spirit of the season which should last all year long
in a perfect world.

Merry Christmas and Happy and Safe Holidays to you all and yours,
Dan




"Pop`" wrote in message
...
You're a little "ranty", but I'm still glad you posted here.

First off, you're not talking to MS here; it's -just- a newsgroup.
Second, you're right about not knowing ahead of time, and you should have.
Education is the only answer to this problem and no one really tries very
hard that has the ability to reach the masses; it isn't just MS. Third,
it's hidden, but MS does have such advice; you just won't find it easily.
Education is key.
The advice to not enter your real email address is because of
bottom-feeding bass turds who scrape names from groups, as you already
know. However, that wasn't the case when such programs were originally
written.
You can use a made up name such as lid, or if you
actually want to get emails from a group (unusual and not advised), then
at best use a throw-away account from one of hte many freebie offereings
around the 'net.

Lastly, it's likely some of your spam came from ng posts here, but there
are many other sources and since you're obviously a newbie to many things
yet, there is still a lot to learn. I'd start at:
http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html
Be patient and read the whole thing.

Also: This is not a forum: It's a newsgroup. Forums are graphics based
readers for something -like- a newgroup, but are different. You can look
them up wikipedia.org.

Yes, this is a very helpful ng and Bruce is one of the best posters here.
He posts a lot, and volunteers considerable time to this group and others
too. I'm sure your comments are appreciated by Bruce.

Personally I don't consider it negligence on the part of MS. I consider
it illegal activity by bottom-feeding bass turds who have no redeeming
qualities of any kind.

And again, this isn't MS people here; most are just volunteers who went
thru the same steps you are going thru; until we get more education in the
world, it will continue too, since it's not just MS, but ALL web clients
who are guilty of this sort of "missing info"| with only a couple of
exceptions.

Pop`


Dan wrote:
This is not a request for assistance, but rather a warning for newer
users here, to hopefully prevent you from the same frustrations I
have experienced as a result of using this forum.

Let me say that I have found this forum EXTREMELY helpful for solving
problems. Bruce Hagen, if he is still around, did an excellent job
assisting me. He also alerted me to the fact that my real email
address was available to all on this forum, BECAUSE MICROSOFT FAILS
TO WARN & INSTRUCT USERS WHEN SETTING UP OUTLOOK EXPRESS TO USE THESE
NEWSGROUPS, that you should NOT, I repeat NOT, NOT, NOT enter your
real email address!!!!!!!!!!
When I set this up, it required me to enter an email address in order
to post here. Nothing warned me that my REAL address would be easily
accessible to all here, NOR did instruct me that I could enter a
false address to thwart the spammers when entering the REQUIRED email
address during sign-up!!!!

Had Microsoft offered this very simple instruction in the beginning,
I am absolutely convinced that I would have NEVER, EVER, received ANY
SPAM!!!! This is on their network afterall, and their NEGLIGENCE to
provide this security information has caused me a great deal of
headache, that now seems will NEVER go away, making me wish I had
never, ever used this newsgroup in the first place!!!

Thank you to Bruce Hagen for recognizing and informing me about this
dangerous security breach. It would have been better if Microsoft were
RESPONSIBLE enough to have given this information in the newsgroup
setup instructions and process!!!!!

The RESULT of this NEGLIGENCE on Microsoft's part is that after just
a few postings before Bruce's alert to me, I am now bombarded on this
email account daily for the last 9 MONTHS by spammers, and ONLY on
this account. I have NEVER received spam on ANY OTHER email account I
have. Many of these spams have been VIRUSES & WORMS!!!! And luckily
my Anti-Virus scanners have been able to remove them. Although I
immediately followed Bruce's intructions to change the email address
displayed, it was too late, and I don't think there is anyway for me
to remove the previous postings with the real email address. So
Microsoft has left me with breach in security which it seems I can
NEVER fix, unless I CANCEL this email account. That is really SAD!!!
and worse yet, it was TOTALLY UNNECESSARY!!!
If Microsoft were honestly SERIOUS about network security, they would
alert ALL people to this security breach before allowing them to use
these newsgroups!!

I don't even want to imagine how much worse this would be if Bruce
had not alerted me to this issue at all, but I hope this message will
possibly assist others in avoiding the headaches I have had.

And Thanks A Lot Microsoft... I thought your mission was to provide
solutions to the masses, not to cause extra problems... but what do I
know anyway.

Best of Luck to All,
Sincerely,
D.

QP
About e-mail addresses and privacy
It is highly likely that you will receive unwanted messages (spam) in your
regular e-mail account if you use your actual, unmodified e-mail address as
your display e-mail address in a discussion group. Note that your display
e-mail address is different from your notification e-mail address. Your
notification e-mail address must be a real e-mail address in order for you
to be notified; it is stored privately by Microsoft. It is not visible to
the Community. However, your display e-mail address is public and visible to
everyone in the Community.

People who send unwanted bulk e-mail (spammers) regularly gather e-mail
addresses from discussion groups. To help prevent spam in your regular
e-mail account, the default display e-mail address when you post a message
in a discussion group is . The
following are the display e-mail address options you can choose from:

Use a false display e-mail address we generate for you
The default address will be used
when you post a message if you do not change your display e-mail address.

Use a modified display e-mail address
Use a different version of your e-mail address that others will understand,
but that spam tools can't automatically pick up. For example, if an actual
e-mail address were , we would recommend modifying it to
one of the following:

.(donotspam)



_SPAM

In this case, the spam tools will send mail to an invalid e-mail address,
and others will know to exclude the invalid information when they send you
e-mail.

Use a secondary e-mail account
Set up or use an e-mail account, such as a Hotmail account, that is separate
from your primary account for posting to discussion groups.
/QP
Source:
http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales...mailAndPrivacy

The above is admittedly from an MS page about using the web-based newsreader
and the same caveats /should/ be prominent on pages about using NNTP
newsreaders (e.g.,
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/...ps/howto.mspx).
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)

Dan wrote:
snip
Let me say that I have found this forum EXTREMELY helpful for solving
problems. Bruce Hagen, if he is still around, did an excellent job
assisting
me. He also alerted me to the fact that my real email address was
available
to all on this forum, BECAUSE MICROSOFT FAILS TO WARN & INSTRUCT USERS
WHEN
SETTING UP OUTLOOK EXPRESS TO USE THESE NEWSGROUPS, that you should NOT, I
repeat NOT, NOT, NOT enter your real email address...

WinMail in Vista advises as you quote when its newsgroup feature is
first activated, I think. There is nothing about munging in Help, though,
and the newsgroup assistance feature does not reappear. So if one
doesn't bother reading it, then it's no longer available. Gmail has
very good spam filters, as you know, but I'm sure that Microsoft
won't point its users directly toward getting a Google email address.

"PA Bear" wrote in message ...
QP
[paraphrase] Be aware of the Harvesters and take care [/paraphrase]
/QP
Source:
http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales...mailAndPrivacy

The above is admittedly from an MS page about using the web-based newsreader
and the same caveats /should/ be prominent on pages about using NNTP
newsreaders (e.g.,
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/...ps/howto.mspx).
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)

Dan wrote:
snip
WHEN SETTING UP OUTLOOK EXPRESS TO USE THESE NEWSGROUPS,
you should NOT, I repeat NOT, NOT, NOT enter your real email address...

Thanks PA Bear, but please note: I already know this, now. The issue the
gets me stirred up is that there is not any warning in the help files of OE
about setup so that a user knowns this in 'advance' before the problem
appears and its already too late. There is no reference to additional info
on the web there either. I am aware that this information does exist
elseware, but it forces the user to search the net possibly extensively for
this info, and during a search, a variety of help pages on this issue
neglect to mention this also, including some of Microsoft's own pages such
as: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/...ups/howto.mspx Note
that this page only says, "enter your email address" which misleads a user
to enter a real address, no mention of alternatives. So even a user who
attempts to search for additional info may continue thinking no risk exists
and end their search there. A user must get lucky to come across the proper
info first such as:
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/ou...snewreader.htm which is 3rd
party, or:
http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales...mailAndPrivacy
which at first glance appears to be directed at the web based application
and might be discounted by those looking for OE info. (Thankyou to Michael
Jennings for pointing me to this one also in his recent post.)

I know some people don't even read instructions before they do things, but I
do. So I, like many others, could not possibly foresee the solution, without
any indication that a problem exists in the first place. Some have suggested
that it is my fault and I just should have known this, I guess through
'devine' revelation, but I think most understand my point. I also take
acception with the fact that an email address is even displayed rather than
just a username, as it appears to have absolutely no necessity for the
functioning of ng's. I realize that this software was likely written long
ago, but probably neglected for upgrade to address the current internet
environment. If there is no intention to begin blocking the email address
after the username in ng's, I think that at least a patch should be added
which will prominently display and warn the user to this risk during setup
for ng in OE, or a warning text in the help files for ng setup. And pages on
MS's site like the first link example above should be updated.

While the real problem is the spammer scum and the gov'ts lack of enacting
and enforcing internet protection, a few small actions as noted above could
go a long way toward combating at least large part of this problem.

Thankyou to you also PA Bear for all the generous help you have provided to
users here, you are appreciated.
Merry Chrismas, and Happy Holidays to you,
Dan


"PA Bear" wrote in message
...
QP
About e-mail addresses and privacy
It is highly likely that you will receive unwanted messages (spam) in your
regular e-mail account if you use your actual, unmodified e-mail address
as your display e-mail address in a discussion group. Note that your
display e-mail address is different from your notification e-mail address.
Your notification e-mail address must be a real e-mail address in order
for you to be notified; it is stored privately by Microsoft. It is not
visible to the Community. However, your display e-mail address is public
and visible to everyone in the Community.

People who send unwanted bulk e-mail (spammers) regularly gather e-mail
addresses from discussion groups. To help prevent spam in your regular
e-mail account, the default display e-mail address when you post a message
in a discussion group is . The
following are the display e-mail address options you can choose from:

Use a false display e-mail address we generate for you
The default address will be used
when you post a message if you do not change your display e-mail address.

Use a modified display e-mail address
Use a different version of your e-mail address that others will
understand, but that spam tools can't automatically pick up. For example,
if an actual e-mail address were , we would recommend
modifying it to one of the following:

.(donotspam)



_SPAM

In this case, the spam tools will send mail to an invalid e-mail address,
and others will know to exclude the invalid information when they send you
e-mail.

Use a secondary e-mail account
Set up or use an e-mail account, such as a Hotmail account, that is
separate from your primary account for posting to discussion groups.
/QP
Source:
http://www.microsoft.com/wn3/locales...mailAndPrivacy

The above is admittedly from an MS page about using the web-based
newsreader and the same caveats /should/ be prominent on pages about using
NNTP newsreaders (e.g.,
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/...ps/howto.mspx).
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)

Dan wrote:
snip
Let me say that I have found this forum EXTREMELY helpful for solving
problems. Bruce Hagen, if he is still around, did an excellent job
assisting
me. He also alerted me to the fact that my real email address was
available
to all on this forum, BECAUSE MICROSOFT FAILS TO WARN & INSTRUCT USERS
WHEN
SETTING UP OUTLOOK EXPRESS TO USE THESE NEWSGROUPS, that you should NOT,
I
repeat NOT, NOT, NOT enter your real email address...