My OE Store Folder directory contained several .dbx files, which, as
far as I could tell, should not be there. Mostly they had names of
folders which *used* to exist, but which (I thought) I had (permanently)
deleted. The others were 'duplicates' i.e. "Personal (1).dbx" while
"Personal.dbx" also existed. Let's call these .dbx files (suspected)
"orphans".

By inspecting their content (with Notepad) I mostly could tell what
was what and hence which .dbx files could be deleted, but I would like a
more foolproof method.

So I scanned [1] the Folders.dbx file for the names of the suspected
orphans. But I found that while sometimes an orphan was indeed not
listed [2], at other times it (another orphan) was. So I could only
conclude:

- If a folder/.dbx file is not listed in Folders.dbx, it is indeed an
orphan.

BUT

- If a folder/.dbx file is listed in Folders.dbx, its status is still
undetermined, i.e. it could still be an orphan.

Is there a way to better check the latter case (i.e. folder/.dbx file
listed in Folders.dbx, but probably an orphan)?

Another obvious question is: Why are there orphans in the first place,
i.e. what went wrong?

From experiments, I think the most likely cause is that OE terminates
abnormally (i.e. 'crashes') after a folder is deleted. Why do I think
that? Because when you delete a folder in OE (even for a permanent
deletion such as Shift+Delete), the .dbx file for the folder is not
deleted until you exit OE (File - Close, etc.).

Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

[1] The scanning could be done with:

find "nameoffolder.dbx" Folders.dbx

(where "nameoffolder" is the name of the suspected orphan), but that is
very slow if you're also subscribed to Newsgroups. Instead I used the
UNIX (Cygwin) command:

strings -a Folders.dbx | grep "nameoffolder"

[2] A listing looks like:

nameoffolder
nameoffolder.dbx

Sometimes the listing is repeated one or more times, i.e.:

nameoffolder
nameoffolder.dbx
nameoffolder
nameoffolder.dbx

You can't open Folders.dbx. If you click on it, it just opens OE.

To determine what folders are the current ones, first compact your folders.

Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders are
open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the
Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything until
the compacting is completed.

Now, note the size of the dbx files you are uncertain of. Add a message to
each corresponding folder in OE and see which dbx files have grown in size.
Eg: If you add a 10kb message to the Personal Folder, did Personal.dbx
increase by 10kb, or did Personal (1).dbx? The one that didn't increase is
not in use.
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
My OE Store Folder directory contained several .dbx files, which, as
far as I could tell, should not be there. Mostly they had names of
folders which *used* to exist, but which (I thought) I had (permanently)
deleted. The others were 'duplicates' i.e. "Personal (1).dbx" while
"Personal.dbx" also existed. Let's call these .dbx files (suspected)
"orphans".

By inspecting their content (with Notepad) I mostly could tell what
was what and hence which .dbx files could be deleted, but I would like a
more foolproof method.

So I scanned [1] the Folders.dbx file for the names of the suspected
orphans. But I found that while sometimes an orphan was indeed not
listed [2], at other times it (another orphan) was. So I could only
conclude:

- If a folder/.dbx file is not listed in Folders.dbx, it is indeed an
orphan.

BUT

- If a folder/.dbx file is listed in Folders.dbx, its status is still
undetermined, i.e. it could still be an orphan.

Is there a way to better check the latter case (i.e. folder/.dbx file
listed in Folders.dbx, but probably an orphan)?

Another obvious question is: Why are there orphans in the first place,
i.e. what went wrong?

From experiments, I think the most likely cause is that OE terminates
abnormally (i.e. 'crashes') after a folder is deleted. Why do I think
that? Because when you delete a folder in OE (even for a permanent
deletion such as Shift+Delete), the .dbx file for the folder is not
deleted until you exit OE (File - Close, etc.).

Thanks in advance for any and all responses.

[1] The scanning could be done with:

find "nameoffolder.dbx" Folders.dbx

(where "nameoffolder" is the name of the suspected orphan), but that is
very slow if you're also subscribed to Newsgroups. Instead I used the
UNIX (Cygwin) command:

strings -a Folders.dbx | grep "nameoffolder"

[2] A listing looks like:

nameoffolder
nameoffolder.dbx

Sometimes the listing is repeated one or more times, i.e.:

nameoffolder
nameoffolder.dbx
nameoffolder
nameoffolder.dbx

You can open folders.dbx with a file viewer, or even with Notepad -- but
be sure not to save any changes! There's any easier way, though. After
compacting all folders, look in the file folder where the .dbx files are
stroes. All current files will have the current date and time. Any files
that has an older time stamp is an orphan.


Bruce Hagen wrote:
You can't open Folders.dbx. If you click on it, it just opens OE.

To determine what folders are the current ones, first compact your folders.

Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders are
open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the
Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything until
the compacting is completed.

Now, note the size of the dbx files you are uncertain of. Add a message to
each corresponding folder in OE and see which dbx files have grown in size.
Eg: If you add a 10kb message to the Personal Folder, did Personal.dbx
increase by 10kb, or did Personal (1).dbx? The one that didn't increase is
not in use.

--
Gary L. Smith
Columbus, Ohio

Gary Smith wrote:
You can open folders.dbx with a file viewer, or even with Notepad -- but
be sure not to save any changes! There's any easier way, though. After
compacting all folders, look in the file folder where the .dbx files are
stroes. All current files will have the current date and time. Any files
that has an older time stamp is an orphan.

Thanks. Yes, that looks easier.

However, as I mentioned in my response to Bruce, I can't do a full
compact at the moment, because it interferes with finding a solution for
'my' other OE problem (see my thread "OE6.0 does not set Archive Bit on
modified folders." in this group). So this solution will have to wait
until the other problem has been solved (or is determined to be
non-solvable).

Bruce Hagen wrote:
You can't open Folders.dbx. If you click on it, it just opens OE.

Yes, I am aware of that. (As I said,) I only used FIND (or UNIX
strings(1)) on it.

To determine what folders are the current ones, first compact your folders.

Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders are
open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the
Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything until
the compacting is completed.

Now, note the size of the dbx files you are uncertain of. Add a message to
each corresponding folder in OE and see which dbx files have grown in size.
Eg: If you add a 10kb message to the Personal Folder, did Personal.dbx
increase by 10kb, or did Personal (1).dbx? The one that didn't increase is
not in use.

Thanks. Yes, that solves the case of duplicates. (I used a similar
method.)

However I also need a solution for the unknown non-duplicates.

For example I had a file "After Holiday.dbx". The name "After Holiday"
was known because I used to have such a folder (in OE), but, as far as I
knew, I deleted it and could not find it (in OE). So is this an orphan?
A "find "After Holiday" Folders.dbx" (without outer quotes) gave:

After Holiday
After Holiday.dbx

So from inspecting Folders.dbx it looks like it is a current folder,
but 1) I can not find it in OE (Note: That I can't find it does *not*
neccessarily mean it's not there.) and 2) from inspecting the folder
..dbx file (with Notepad) it looks like it is a deleted folder. Which is
it, current or deleted? That is what I need to find out.

To be [f|F]rank :-), I haven't done a full compact (of all folders)
yet, so I can't say for sure whether or not a full compact also cleans
out the spurious entries (like the "After Holiday"/"After Holiday.dbx")
from the Folders.dbx file. The reason I haven't done a full compact is
that it interferes with finding a solution for 'my' other OE problem
(see my thread "OE6.0 does not set Archive Bit on modified folders." in
this group).

When I started with this, I hoped that telling OE to use another
directory as Store Folder (Tools - Options... - Maintenance - Store
Folder... - Change...) would only move the in-use folders, but
apparently OE just movies *all* of the .dbx files from the old directory
to the new one, not just the in-use ones, i.e. it's a 'dumb' move
instead of a 'smart' one.

If the dbx file doesn't exist in the message store, then the messages are
most likely gone. There is a tool that can read directly from the HDD to
recover messages, but if it has been awhile, the messages have probably been
overwritten by now.

If you want to, try it, but I wouldn't hold any expectations high.

DBXpress run in Extract From Disk Mode:
http://www.oehelp.com/DBXpress/Default.aspx
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
Bruce Hagen wrote:
You can't open Folders.dbx. If you click on it, it just opens OE.

Yes, I am aware of that. (As I said,) I only used FIND (or UNIX
strings(1)) on it.

To determine what folders are the current ones, first compact your
folders.

Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders are
open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the
Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything
until
the compacting is completed.

Now, note the size of the dbx files you are uncertain of. Add a message
to
each corresponding folder in OE and see which dbx files have grown in
size.
Eg: If you add a 10kb message to the Personal Folder, did Personal.dbx
increase by 10kb, or did Personal (1).dbx? The one that didn't increase
is
not in use.

Thanks. Yes, that solves the case of duplicates. (I used a similar
method.)

However I also need a solution for the unknown non-duplicates.

For example I had a file "After Holiday.dbx". The name "After Holiday"
was known because I used to have such a folder (in OE), but, as far as I
knew, I deleted it and could not find it (in OE). So is this an orphan?
A "find "After Holiday" Folders.dbx" (without outer quotes) gave:

After Holiday
After Holiday.dbx

So from inspecting Folders.dbx it looks like it is a current folder,
but 1) I can not find it in OE (Note: That I can't find it does *not*
neccessarily mean it's not there.) and 2) from inspecting the folder
.dbx file (with Notepad) it looks like it is a deleted folder. Which is
it, current or deleted? That is what I need to find out.

To be [f|F]rank :-), I haven't done a full compact (of all folders)
yet, so I can't say for sure whether or not a full compact also cleans
out the spurious entries (like the "After Holiday"/"After Holiday.dbx")
from the Folders.dbx file. The reason I haven't done a full compact is
that it interferes with finding a solution for 'my' other OE problem
(see my thread "OE6.0 does not set Archive Bit on modified folders." in
this group).

When I started with this, I hoped that telling OE to use another
directory as Store Folder (Tools - Options... - Maintenance - Store
Folder... - Change...) would only move the in-use folders, but
apparently OE just movies *all* of the .dbx files from the old directory
to the new one, not just the in-use ones, i.e. it's a 'dumb' move
instead of a 'smart' one.

Bruce Hagen wrote:
If the dbx file doesn't exist in the message store, then the messages are
most likely gone.

No, my problem is the *opposite*:

There *is* a (actually several) .dbx file "in the message store" (the
Store Folder), but I can't determine with sufficient degree of certainty
whether it is an orphaned file (i.e. one which can be deleted) or is an
in-use file (i.e. holds one of OE's current folders).

There is a tool that can read directly from the HDD to
recover messages, but if it has been awhile, the messages have probably been
overwritten by now.

If you want to, try it, but I wouldn't hold any expectations high.

DBXpress run in Extract From Disk Mode:
http://www.oehelp.com/DBXpress/Default.aspx
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
Bruce Hagen wrote:
You can't open Folders.dbx. If you click on it, it just opens OE.

Yes, I am aware of that. (As I said,) I only used FIND (or UNIX
strings(1)) on it.

To determine what folders are the current ones, first compact your
folders.

Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders are
open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the
Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything
until
the compacting is completed.

Now, note the size of the dbx files you are uncertain of. Add a message
to
each corresponding folder in OE and see which dbx files have grown in
size.
Eg: If you add a 10kb message to the Personal Folder, did Personal.dbx
increase by 10kb, or did Personal (1).dbx? The one that didn't increase
is
not in use.

Thanks. Yes, that solves the case of duplicates. (I used a similar
method.)

However I also need a solution for the unknown non-duplicates.

For example I had a file "After Holiday.dbx". The name "After Holiday"
was known because I used to have such a folder (in OE), but, as far as I
knew, I deleted it and could not find it (in OE). So is this an orphan?
A "find "After Holiday" Folders.dbx" (without outer quotes) gave:

After Holiday
After Holiday.dbx

So from inspecting Folders.dbx it looks like it is a current folder,
but 1) I can not find it in OE (Note: That I can't find it does *not*
neccessarily mean it's not there.) and 2) from inspecting the folder
.dbx file (with Notepad) it looks like it is a deleted folder. Which is
it, current or deleted? That is what I need to find out.

To be [f|F]rank :-), I haven't done a full compact (of all folders)
yet, so I can't say for sure whether or not a full compact also cleans
out the spurious entries (like the "After Holiday"/"After Holiday.dbx")
from the Folders.dbx file. The reason I haven't done a full compact is
that it interferes with finding a solution for 'my' other OE problem
(see my thread "OE6.0 does not set Archive Bit on modified folders." in
this group).

When I started with this, I hoped that telling OE to use another
directory as Store Folder (Tools - Options... - Maintenance - Store
Folder... - Change...) would only move the in-use folders, but
apparently OE just movies *all* of the .dbx files from the old directory
to the new one, not just the in-use ones, i.e. it's a 'dumb' move
instead of a 'smart' one.

From your last post:

For example I had a file "After Holiday.dbx". The name "After Holiday"
was known because I used to have such a folder (in OE), but, as far as I
knew, I deleted it and could not find it (in OE).

If you don't have a folder in OE with that name any more, then you can
delete it. It won't affect any current folders or files. For the most part,
when you delete a user created folder in OE because you don't need it any
more, the dbx file usually remains until you delete it.
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
Bruce Hagen wrote:
If the dbx file doesn't exist in the message store, then the messages are
most likely gone.

No, my problem is the *opposite*:

There *is* a (actually several) .dbx file "in the message store" (the
Store Folder), but I can't determine with sufficient degree of certainty
whether it is an orphaned file (i.e. one which can be deleted) or is an
in-use file (i.e. holds one of OE's current folders).

There is a tool that can read directly from the HDD to
recover messages, but if it has been awhile, the messages have probably
been
overwritten by now.

If you want to, try it, but I wouldn't hold any expectations high.

DBXpress run in Extract From Disk Mode:
http://www.oehelp.com/DBXpress/Default.aspx
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
Bruce Hagen wrote:
You can't open Folders.dbx. If you click on it, it just opens OE.

Yes, I am aware of that. (As I said,) I only used FIND (or UNIX
strings(1)) on it.

To determine what folders are the current ones, first compact your
folders.

Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders
are
open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the
Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything
until
the compacting is completed.

Now, note the size of the dbx files you are uncertain of. Add a
message
to
each corresponding folder in OE and see which dbx files have grown in
size.
Eg: If you add a 10kb message to the Personal Folder, did Personal.dbx
increase by 10kb, or did Personal (1).dbx? The one that didn't
increase
is
not in use.

Thanks. Yes, that solves the case of duplicates. (I used a similar
method.)

However I also need a solution for the unknown non-duplicates.

For example I had a file "After Holiday.dbx". The name "After Holiday"
was known because I used to have such a folder (in OE), but, as far as
I
knew, I deleted it and could not find it (in OE). So is this an orphan?
A "find "After Holiday" Folders.dbx" (without outer quotes) gave:

After Holiday
After Holiday.dbx

So from inspecting Folders.dbx it looks like it is a current folder,
but 1) I can not find it in OE (Note: That I can't find it does *not*
neccessarily mean it's not there.) and 2) from inspecting the folder
.dbx file (with Notepad) it looks like it is a deleted folder. Which is
it, current or deleted? That is what I need to find out.

To be [f|F]rank :-), I haven't done a full compact (of all folders)
yet, so I can't say for sure whether or not a full compact also cleans
out the spurious entries (like the "After Holiday"/"After Holiday.dbx")
from the Folders.dbx file. The reason I haven't done a full compact is
that it interferes with finding a solution for 'my' other OE problem
(see my thread "OE6.0 does not set Archive Bit on modified folders." in
this group).

When I started with this, I hoped that telling OE to use another
directory as Store Folder (Tools - Options... - Maintenance - Store
Folder... - Change...) would only move the in-use folders, but
apparently OE just movies *all* of the .dbx files from the old
directory
to the new one, not just the in-use ones, i.e. it's a 'dumb' move
instead of a 'smart' one.

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
My OE Store Folder directory contained several .dbx files, which, as
far as I could tell, should not be there. Mostly they had names of
folders which *used* to exist, but which (I thought) I had (permanently)
deleted. The others were 'duplicates' i.e. "Personal (1).dbx" while
"Personal.dbx" also existed. Let's call these .dbx files (suspected)
"orphans".


Look at the date of the file.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Answer in newsgroup. Don't send mail.

Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM wrote:
"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
My OE Store Folder directory contained several .dbx files, which, as
far as I could tell, should not be there. Mostly they had names of
folders which *used* to exist, but which (I thought) I had (permanently)
deleted. The others were 'duplicates' i.e. "Personal (1).dbx" while
"Personal.dbx" also existed. Let's call these .dbx files (suspected)
"orphans".

Look at the date of the file.

Thanks, but that's not fail-safe. The date of the file can be old, but
the file can still be an in-use (i.e. non-orphan) folder. For example my
oldest in-use folder has a (Date Modified) date of May 5. (And 13 others
of the same date, next ones of July, etc., etc.)

But as I said in my response to Bruce, I have enough alternatives, so
case closed.