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This is for my in-laws, so the description of the problem is second hand.
They use SBCYahoo DSL and an SBC provided DSL modem. A Dlink wireless router is connected to the modem. A desktop is wired to the router, and a wireless laptop is also used. This was all set up about 10 weeks ago. Both pcs use XPHome and OE. Both OEs are set to leave messages on the SBCglobalnet server so they can download all messages from either pc. They have not yet deleted any messages from the server. Here's the problem: Whenever they collect email on the laptop (I think it's only happening on the laptop, I have to check with them), OE says downloading 1, 2, 3, etc. messages of 300 (or more). The older messages are not actually downloaded, only the new ones. Could this be a corrupt .dbx file in OE on the laptop? Is this peculiar to SBCYahoo DSL? They also have their McAfee set to check outgoing email for viruses. Could this be the problem. I'm grasping at straws at this point. Thanks. |
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For second hand info, you posted better than most. There are a few things
that may be involved here. If both computers are using the same e-mail address, on both machines: Tools | Accounts | Mail | Properties | Advanced - Check: Leave a copy of messages on the server. Very important. On one machine only, check to Delete messages after X days to assure the server does not get clogged up. Turn off e-mail scanning in your anti-virus program. It is a redundant layer of protection that eats up CPUs, slows down sending and receiving, and causes a multitude of problems such as time-outs, account setting changes and has even been responsible for lose of messages. Your up-to-date A/V program will continue to protect you sufficiently. For more, see: http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3 McAfee and Norton both cause havoc with Outlook Express. I would get rid of it completely and get AVG *Free*. http://free.grisoft.com/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5 or: http://www.grisoft.com/doc/40/lng/ww When prompted, choose Custom Installation and *uncheck* e-mail scanning when you see the option. Norton, and McAfee, products are not Outlook Express friendly, and I don't know of any OE-MVP that would recommend using them. And also very important is the condition of the folders, especially the Inbox. Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually become corrupt. Create your own user defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them. Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible. After you are done, follow up by compacting your folders manually while working *offline* and do it often. Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders are open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything until the compacting is completed. And backup often. Backup & Resto http://www.insideoutlookexpress.com/backup/ This is a great two click program: Outlook Express Quick Backup (OEQB) http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx -- Bruce Hagen MS-MVP Outlook Express ~IB-CA~ Boris wrote in message ... This is for my in-laws, so the description of the problem is second hand. They use SBCYahoo DSL and an SBC provided DSL modem. A Dlink wireless router is connected to the modem. A desktop is wired to the router, and a wireless laptop is also used. This was all set up about 10 weeks ago. Both pcs use XPHome and OE. Both OEs are set to leave messages on the SBCglobalnet server so they can download all messages from either pc. They have not yet deleted any messages from the server. Here's the problem: Whenever they collect email on the laptop (I think it's only happening on the laptop, I have to check with them), OE says downloading 1, 2, 3, etc. messages of 300 (or more). The older messages are not actually downloaded, only the new ones. Could this be a corrupt .dbx file in OE on the laptop? Is this peculiar to SBCYahoo DSL? They also have their McAfee set to check outgoing email for viruses. Could this be the problem. I'm grasping at straws at this point. Thanks. |
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"Bruce Hagen" wrote in
: Thanks for the reply. I've nested my comments, below. (Sorry about the top posting here.) For second hand info, you posted better than most. There are a few things that may be involved here. If both computers are using the same e-mail address, on both machines: Yes, same email address. Tools | Accounts | Mail | Properties | Advanced - Check: Leave a copy of messages on the server. Current condition on both machines. Very important. On one machine only, check to Delete messages after X days to assure the server does not get clogged up. OK. Why on one machine? And any preference? Both are used equally as much. Turn off e-mail scanning in your anti-virus program. It is a redundant layer of protection that eats up CPUs, slows down sending and receiving, and causes a multitude of problems such as time-outs, account setting changes and has even been responsible for lose of messages. Your up-to-date A/V program will continue to protect you sufficiently. For more, see: http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3 Turn off email scanning on both outbound and inbound? Will do. I understand. The A/V will proctect them should they download a virus laden email. McAfee and Norton both cause havoc with Outlook Express. I would get rid of it completely and get AVG *Free*. http://free.grisoft.com/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5 or: http://www.grisoft.com/doc/40/lng/ww When prompted, choose Custom Installation and *uncheck* e-mail scanning when you see the option. I assume you mean on any A/V application I choose to use. Norton, and McAfee, products are not Outlook Express friendly, and I don't know of any OE-MVP that would recommend using them. And also very important is the condition of the folders, especially the Inbox. Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually become corrupt. Create your own user defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them. You mean create my own folders within OE, or outside of OE? Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible. That's my general practice, but I think the in-laws may be huge. After you are done, follow up by compacting your folders manually while working *offline* and do it often. My general practice, too, but will advise in-laws. Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders are open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything until the compacting is completed. And backup often. Backup & Resto http://www.insideoutlookexpress.com/backup/ Have used to migrate OE. This is a great two click program: Outlook Express Quick Backup (OEQB) http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx Will check it out. I will probably go over to their house tomorrow and apply your suggestions. I'll report back. Thanks again. |
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Top posting is fine with me. Replies inline.
Boris wrote in message . .. "Bruce Hagen" wrote in : Thanks for the reply. I've nested my comments, below. (Sorry about the top posting here.) For second hand info, you posted better than most. There are a few things that may be involved here. If both computers are using the same e-mail address, on both machines: Yes, same email address. Tools | Accounts | Mail | Properties | Advanced - Check: Leave a copy of messages on the server. Current condition on both machines. Very important. On one machine only, check to Delete messages after X days to assure the server does not get clogged up. OK. Why on one machine? And any preference? Both are used equally as much. It may not make a difference in your case, but it is only needed on one machine. Your mail server only has to / wants to be told once. Turn off e-mail scanning in your anti-virus program. It is a redundant layer of protection that eats up CPUs, slows down sending and receiving, and causes a multitude of problems such as time-outs, account setting changes and has even been responsible for lose of messages. Your up-to-date A/V program will continue to protect you sufficiently. For more, see: http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3 Turn off email scanning on both outbound and inbound? Will do. I understand. The A/V will proctect them should they download a virus laden email. Yes. Incoming and outgoing. This was a program originally devised by Symantec to boost sales by making the user feel more secure. Turning off e-mail scanning is safe. See: Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...ion.mspx#EOAAC And this is from Symantec, but applies to all anti-virus programs. From: http://snipurl.com/bmf6 Is my computer still protected against viruses if I disable Email Scanning? Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses that are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have the most recent virus definitions. McAfee and Norton both cause havoc with Outlook Express. I would get rid of it completely and get AVG *Free*. http://free.grisoft.com/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5 or: http://www.grisoft.com/doc/40/lng/ww When prompted, choose Custom Installation and *uncheck* e-mail scanning when you see the option. I assume you mean on any A/V application I choose to use. Yes. E-mail scanning is moot for any program. For some programs, just unchecking it in the Security Center isn't enough. Remenants of it remain and it sometimes becomes checked again by itself. BTW, I have used AVG Free for quite some time and have never had a problem. Avast, also free, and NOD32, not free also work well with OE, but I don't have any first hand knowledge of those programs. Norton, and McAfee, products are not Outlook Express friendly, and I don't know of any OE-MVP that would recommend using them. And also very important is the condition of the folders, especially the Inbox. Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually become corrupt. Create your own user defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them. You mean create my own folders within OE, or outside of OE? Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible. That's my general practice, but I think the in-laws may be huge. After you are done, follow up by compacting your folders manually while working *offline* and do it often. My general practice, too, but will advise in-laws. Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders are open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything until the compacting is completed. And backup often. Backup & Resto http://www.insideoutlookexpress.com/backup/ Have used to migrate OE. This is a great two click program: Outlook Express Quick Backup (OEQB) http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx Will check it out. I will probably go over to their house tomorrow and apply your suggestions. I'll report back. Thanks again. Good luck, Boris. I am pretty confident that one or more of the things I have listed will correct the problem. Don't forget cleaning out the default folders and compacting. -- Bruce Hagen MS-MVP Outlook Express ~IB-CA~ |
#5
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"Bruce Hagen" wrote in
: Top posting is fine with me. Replies inline. Boris wrote in message . .. "Bruce Hagen" wrote in : Thanks for the reply. I've nested my comments, below. (Sorry about the top posting here.) For second hand info, you posted better than most. There are a few things that may be involved here. If both computers are using the same e-mail address, on both machines: Yes, same email address. Tools | Accounts | Mail | Properties | Advanced - Check: Leave a copy of messages on the server. Current condition on both machines. Very important. On one machine only, check to Delete messages after X days to assure the server does not get clogged up. OK. Why on one machine? And any preference? Both are used equally as much. It may not make a difference in your case, but it is only needed on one machine. Your mail server only has to / wants to be told once. Turn off e-mail scanning in your anti-virus program. It is a redundant layer of protection that eats up CPUs, slows down sending and receiving, and causes a multitude of problems such as time-outs, account setting changes and has even been responsible for lose of messages. Your up-to-date A/V program will continue to protect you sufficiently. For more, see: http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3 Turn off email scanning on both outbound and inbound? Will do. I understand. The A/V will proctect them should they download a virus laden email. Yes. Incoming and outgoing. This was a program originally devised by Symantec to boost sales by making the user feel more secure. Turning off e-mail scanning is safe. See: Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...ecorruption.ms px#EOAAC And this is from Symantec, but applies to all anti-virus programs. From: http://snipurl.com/bmf6 Is my computer still protected against viruses if I disable Email Scanning? Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses that are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have the most recent virus definitions. McAfee and Norton both cause havoc with Outlook Express. I would get rid of it completely and get AVG *Free*. http://free.grisoft.com/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5 or: http://www.grisoft.com/doc/40/lng/ww When prompted, choose Custom Installation and *uncheck* e-mail scanning when you see the option. I assume you mean on any A/V application I choose to use. Yes. E-mail scanning is moot for any program. For some programs, just unchecking it in the Security Center isn't enough. Remenants of it remain and it sometimes becomes checked again by itself. BTW, I have used AVG Free for quite some time and have never had a problem. Avast, also free, and NOD32, not free also work well with OE, but I don't have any first hand knowledge of those programs. Norton, and McAfee, products are not Outlook Express friendly, and I don't know of any OE-MVP that would recommend using them. And also very important is the condition of the folders, especially the Inbox. Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually become corrupt. Create your own user defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them. You mean create my own folders within OE, or outside of OE? Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible. That's my general practice, but I think the in-laws may be huge. After you are done, follow up by compacting your folders manually while working *offline* and do it often. My general practice, too, but will advise in-laws. Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders are open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything until the compacting is completed. And backup often. Backup & Resto http://www.insideoutlookexpress.com/backup/ Have used to migrate OE. This is a great two click program: Outlook Express Quick Backup (OEQB) http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx Will check it out. I will probably go over to their house tomorrow and apply your suggestions. I'll report back. Thanks again. Good luck, Boris. I am pretty confident that one or more of the things I have listed will correct the problem. Don't forget cleaning out the default folders and compacting. Before going over to my in-laws to look at their problem, I logged into (from my home) their sbc webmail and saw there were 3,218 messages in their inbox. Wheh!!! It had never been emptied since I set up their new laptop/wireless network on December 28,2006. I had left instructions on how to delete their webmail every so often, but... I called them and told them what I saw, and walked them through deleting them all. We changed the page view to the max, that is 200 messages per page, and went through 200 deletions at a time. Once that was done, I started making the other suggestions we've written about, and offered to come over and implement them, but I could tell this first revelation (3,218 messages) was baffling to them, so I backed off and said we'd do some more housekeeping another day (maybe the weekend). Because they are so considerate of others, they hate to tell me when they have pc problems because they know I'll take the time to fix them, and they hate to ask for help. I've been over there at least 15 times since the new year, either for pc help or for family get togethers, and they never mentioned this problem. I only heard about it because my son was visiting and they told him, who in turn told me. It's one step at a time, but that's fine. Thanks again. |
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Boris wrote in message
. .. "Bruce Hagen" wrote in : Top posting is fine with me. Replies inline. Boris wrote in message . .. "Bruce Hagen" wrote in : Thanks for the reply. I've nested my comments, below. (Sorry about the top posting here.) For second hand info, you posted better than most. There are a few things that may be involved here. If both computers are using the same e-mail address, on both machines: Yes, same email address. Tools | Accounts | Mail | Properties | Advanced - Check: Leave a copy of messages on the server. Current condition on both machines. Very important. On one machine only, check to Delete messages after X days to assure the server does not get clogged up. OK. Why on one machine? And any preference? Both are used equally as much. It may not make a difference in your case, but it is only needed on one machine. Your mail server only has to / wants to be told once. Turn off e-mail scanning in your anti-virus program. It is a redundant layer of protection that eats up CPUs, slows down sending and receiving, and causes a multitude of problems such as time-outs, account setting changes and has even been responsible for lose of messages. Your up-to-date A/V program will continue to protect you sufficiently. For more, see: http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3 Turn off email scanning on both outbound and inbound? Will do. I understand. The A/V will proctect them should they download a virus laden email. Yes. Incoming and outgoing. This was a program originally devised by Symantec to boost sales by making the user feel more secure. Turning off e-mail scanning is safe. See: Viral Irony: The Most Common Cause of Corruption. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...ecorruption.ms px#EOAAC And this is from Symantec, but applies to all anti-virus programs. From: http://snipurl.com/bmf6 Is my computer still protected against viruses if I disable Email Scanning? Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses that are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have the most recent virus definitions. McAfee and Norton both cause havoc with Outlook Express. I would get rid of it completely and get AVG *Free*. http://free.grisoft.com/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5 or: http://www.grisoft.com/doc/40/lng/ww When prompted, choose Custom Installation and *uncheck* e-mail scanning when you see the option. I assume you mean on any A/V application I choose to use. Yes. E-mail scanning is moot for any program. For some programs, just unchecking it in the Security Center isn't enough. Remenants of it remain and it sometimes becomes checked again by itself. BTW, I have used AVG Free for quite some time and have never had a problem. Avast, also free, and NOD32, not free also work well with OE, but I don't have any first hand knowledge of those programs. Norton, and McAfee, products are not Outlook Express friendly, and I don't know of any OE-MVP that would recommend using them. And also very important is the condition of the folders, especially the Inbox. Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually become corrupt. Create your own user defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them. You mean create my own folders within OE, or outside of OE? Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible. That's my general practice, but I think the in-laws may be huge. After you are done, follow up by compacting your folders manually while working *offline* and do it often. My general practice, too, but will advise in-laws. Click on Outlook Express at the top of the folder tree so no folders are open. Then: File | Work Offline (or double click Working Online in the Status Bar). File | Folder | Compact all folders. Don't touch anything until the compacting is completed. And backup often. Backup & Resto http://www.insideoutlookexpress.com/backup/ Have used to migrate OE. This is a great two click program: Outlook Express Quick Backup (OEQB) http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx Will check it out. I will probably go over to their house tomorrow and apply your suggestions. I'll report back. Thanks again. Good luck, Boris. I am pretty confident that one or more of the things I have listed will correct the problem. Don't forget cleaning out the default folders and compacting. Before going over to my in-laws to look at their problem, I logged into (from my home) their sbc webmail and saw there were 3,218 messages in their inbox. Wheh!!! It had never been emptied since I set up their new laptop/wireless network on December 28,2006. I had left instructions on how to delete their webmail every so often, but... I called them and told them what I saw, and walked them through deleting them all. We changed the page view to the max, that is 200 messages per page, and went through 200 deletions at a time. Once that was done, I started making the other suggestions we've written about, and offered to come over and implement them, but I could tell this first revelation (3,218 messages) was baffling to them, so I backed off and said we'd do some more housekeeping another day (maybe the weekend). Because they are so considerate of others, they hate to tell me when they have pc problems because they know I'll take the time to fix them, and they hate to ask for help. I've been over there at least 15 times since the new year, either for pc help or for family get togethers, and they never mentioned this problem. I only heard about it because my son was visiting and they told him, who in turn told me. It's one step at a time, but that's fine. Thanks again. You're welcome. If Leave a copy on the server is checked, then Delete after X days must be checked, or the server will get clogged up and stop downloading. I have people close by that have constant problems. I urge them to call when they have /one/ problem and not wait until it escalates to many problems. Hope you get it worked out. -- Bruce Hagen MS-MVP Outlook Express ~IB-CA~ |
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Boris wrote in message
... This is for my in-laws, so the description of the problem is second hand. They use SBCYahoo DSL and an SBC provided DSL modem. A Dlink wireless router is connected to the modem. A desktop is wired to the router, and a wireless laptop is also used. This was all set up about 10 weeks ago. Both pcs use XPHome and OE. Both OEs are set to leave messages on the SBCglobalnet server so they can download all messages from either pc. They have not yet deleted any messages from the server. Here's the problem: Whenever they collect email on the laptop (I think it's only happening on the laptop, I have to check with them), OE says downloading 1, 2, 3, etc. messages of 300 (or more). The older messages are not actually downloaded, only the new ones. Make sure that you are not dealing with a news account. The symptom that you are describing is normally only seen when downloading messages from a news server and that could be changed by _unchecking_ Get 300 headers at a time (in Options, Read tab; keystrokes: Alt-T,O,Ctrl-Tab,G) You can also avoid that symptom by using any Synchronize command since they ignore the Get option and download however many headers and bodies (if appropriate) as are available. Could this be a corrupt .dbx file in OE on the laptop? Is this peculiar to SBCYahoo DSL? They also have their McAfee set to check outgoing email for viruses. Could this be the problem. I'm grasping at straws at this point. Thanks. HTH Robert Aldwinckle --- |
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"Robert Aldwinckle" wrote in
: Boris wrote in message ... This is for my in-laws, so the description of the problem is second hand. They use SBCYahoo DSL and an SBC provided DSL modem. A Dlink wireless router is connected to the modem. A desktop is wired to the router, and a wireless laptop is also used. This was all set up about 10 weeks ago. Both pcs use XPHome and OE. Both OEs are set to leave messages on the SBCglobalnet server so they can download all messages from either pc. They have not yet deleted any messages from the server. Here's the problem: Whenever they collect email on the laptop (I think it's only happening on the laptop, I have to check with them), OE says downloading 1, 2, 3, etc. messages of 300 (or more). The older messages are not actually downloaded, only the new ones. Make sure that you are not dealing with a news account. The symptom that you are describing is normally only seen when downloading messages from a news server and that could be changed by _unchecking_ Get 300 headers at a time (in Options, Read tab; keystrokes: Alt-T,O,Ctrl-Tab,G) You can also avoid that symptom by using any Synchronize command since they ignore the Get option and download however many headers and bodies (if appropriate) as are available. Could this be a corrupt .dbx file in OE on the laptop? Is this peculiar to SBCYahoo DSL? They also have their McAfee set to check outgoing email for viruses. Could this be the problem. I'm grasping at straws at this point. Thanks. HTH Robert Aldwinckle --- Hi, Robert, Nope, no OE news account configured, but, yes, 'downloading 300 messages' does sound like the 'get new headers' is the command sending the message. Thanks for the reply. |
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Boris wrote in message
. .. "Robert Aldwinckle" wrote in : Boris wrote in message ... This is for my in-laws, so the description of the problem is second hand. They use SBCYahoo DSL and an SBC provided DSL modem. A Dlink wireless router is connected to the modem. A desktop is wired to the router, and a wireless laptop is also used. This was all set up about 10 weeks ago. Both pcs use XPHome and OE. Both OEs are set to leave messages on the SBCglobalnet server so they can download all messages from either pc. They have not yet deleted any messages from the server. Here's the problem: Whenever they collect email on the laptop (I think it's only happening on the laptop, I have to check with them), OE says downloading 1, 2, 3, etc. messages of 300 (or more). The older messages are not actually downloaded, only the new ones. Make sure that you are not dealing with a news account. The symptom that you are describing is normally only seen when downloading messages from a news server and that could be changed by _unchecking_ Get 300 headers at a time (in Options, Read tab; keystrokes: Alt-T,O,Ctrl-Tab,G) You can also avoid that symptom by using any Synchronize command since they ignore the Get option and download however many headers and bodies (if appropriate) as are available. Could this be a corrupt .dbx file in OE on the laptop? Is this peculiar to SBCYahoo DSL? They also have their McAfee set to check outgoing email for viruses. Could this be the problem. I'm grasping at straws at this point. Thanks. HTH Robert Aldwinckle --- Hi, Robert, Nope, no OE news account configured, but, yes, 'downloading 300 messages' does sound like the 'get new headers' is the command sending the message. Thanks for the reply. Get XXX (300) headers at a time is only for newsgroups, and OE only *mirrors* what is on the news server. Even if you were subscribed, news messages would not be on the WebMail Inbox. -- Bruce Hagen MS-MVP Outlook Express ~IB-CA~ |
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![]() Boris wrote in message ... This is for my in-laws, so the description of the problem is second hand. They use SBCYahoo DSL and an SBC provided DSL modem. A Dlink wireless router is connected to the modem. A desktop is wired to the router, and a wireless laptop is also used. This was all set up about 10 weeks ago. Both pcs use XPHome and OE. Both OEs are set to leave messages on the SBCglobalnet server so they can download all messages from either pc. They have not yet deleted any messages from the server. Here's the problem: Whenever they collect email on the laptop (I think it's only happening on the laptop, I have to check with them), OE says downloading 1, 2, 3, etc. messages of 300 (or more). The older messages are not actually downloaded, only the new ones. Could this be a corrupt .dbx file in OE on the laptop? Is this peculiar to SBCYahoo DSL? They also have their McAfee set to check outgoing email for viruses. Could this be the problem. I'm grasping at straws at this point. Thanks. |
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