Hi there,

I am having a problem with old newsgroup messages in Outlook Express 6 on
Windows XP SP2.

I have these settings in Tools Options Maintenance set;

[Ticked] Delete read message bodies in newsgroups.
[Ticked] Delete news messages 2 days after being downloaded.

The messages do not go, they hang around forever!!!

Have also tried the Windows repair thing (Start Run sfc /scannow press
ENTER.) as per MS's site and that did nothing, not even a message, but took
a good 10 minutes or so to run.

Nothing seems to have made a difference and yet everything else works fine.
Except one newsgroup (even though I have clicked 'Catch Up') still tries to
download *all* the thousands of messages every now and then!?

Can anyone help me please?

--
Thanks,
Louise

Those settings only remove the message bodies.
The headers will remain until the message is removed from the server.
Create a message rule and manually apply the rule or manually delete the
messages.
--
Ronald Sommer

"Louise" wrote in message
...
Hi there,

I am having a problem with old newsgroup messages in Outlook Express 6 on
Windows XP SP2.

I have these settings in Tools Options Maintenance set;

[Ticked] Delete read message bodies in newsgroups.
[Ticked] Delete news messages 2 days after being downloaded.

The messages do not go, they hang around forever!!!

Have also tried the Windows repair thing (Start Run sfc /scannow
press ENTER.) as per MS's site and that did nothing, not even a message,
but took a good 10 minutes or so to run.

Nothing seems to have made a difference and yet everything else works
fine. Except one newsgroup (even though I have clicked 'Catch Up') still
tries to download *all* the thousands of messages every now and then!?

Can anyone help me please?

--
Thanks,
Louise

"Louise" wrote in message
...

I am having a problem with old newsgroup messages in Outlook Express
6 on Windows XP SP2.

I have these settings in Tools Options Maintenance set;

[Ticked] Delete read message bodies in newsgroups.
[Ticked] Delete news messages 2 days after being downloaded.

The messages do not go, they hang around forever!!!

Have also tried the Windows repair thing (Start Run sfc /scannow
press ENTER.) as per MS's site and that did nothing, not even a
message, but took a good 10 minutes or so to run.

Nothing seems to have made a difference and yet everything else
works fine. Except one newsgroup (even though I have clicked 'Catch
Up') still tries to download *all* the thousands of messages every
now and then!?


You forgot to mention something or perhaps to notice it: Those options
are under the "When compacting ..." group of options. Well, that
means WHEN compaction occurs is WHEN those options are honored. Did
you actually perform a manual compaction? No? Well, then those
options aren't effected until OE happens to get around to doing the
compaction itself which, after WinXP SP-2, will be every 100 sessions
of OE.

Inline.

Louise wrote:
Hi there,

I am having a problem with old newsgroup messages in Outlook Express 6 on
Windows XP SP2.

I have these settings in Tools Options Maintenance set;

[Ticked] Delete read message bodies in newsgroups.
[Ticked] Delete news messages 2 days after being downloaded.

The messages do not go, they hang around forever!!!

As others have said, neither of those options will delete message headers,
and it only happens when you compact all OE folders or automatic compating
kicks in.

Have also tried the Windows repair thing (Start Run sfc /scannow
press
ENTER.) as per MS's site and that did nothing, not even a message, but
took
a good 10 minutes or so to run.

There was no reason to run scannow, and that's about how long it takes to
run it.

Nothing seems to have made a difference and yet everything else works
fine.
Except one newsgroup (even though I have clicked 'Catch Up') still tries
to
download *all* the thousands of messages every now and then!?

You'll either have to delete the headers and messages manually or use a
manually applied News rule periodically to do it ("Where the message was
sent XX days ago, ...Delete it").

If you do a Catch Up on a newsgroup and find later that OE offers all
messages again, either there's a problem on the newsserver or your current
identity is damaged and needs to be replace.

General OE Caveats:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Disable Background Compacting [not available in SP2] and frequently
perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working offline". More at
http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt to
close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic Compacting
is taking place.

- Your anti-virus application's email scanning feature can also cause such
corruption. Disable it. It provides no additional protection.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

"VanguardLH" wrote;

"Louise" wrote;
I am having a problem with old newsgroup messages in Outlook Express 6 on
Windows XP SP2.

I have these settings in Tools Options Maintenance set;

[Ticked] Delete read message bodies in newsgroups.
[Ticked] Delete news messages 2 days after being downloaded.

The messages do not go, they hang around forever!!!

Have also tried the Windows repair thing (Start Run sfc /scannow
press ENTER.) as per MS's site and that did nothing, not even a message,
but took a good 10 minutes or so to run.

Nothing seems to have made a difference and yet everything else works
fine. Except one newsgroup (even though I have clicked 'Catch Up') still
tries to download *all* the thousands of messages every now and then!?


You forgot to mention something or perhaps to notice it: Those options are
under the "When compacting ..." group of options. Well, that means WHEN
compaction occurs is WHEN those options are honored. Did you actually
perform a manual compaction? No? Well, then those options aren't
effected until OE happens to get around to doing the compaction itself
which, after WinXP SP-2, will be every 100 sessions of OE.

I did not notice that it was specifically under the Compacting section but I
have done several manual compactions and that has not got rid of any of the
messages.

How come this never used to be the case with Windows 98? On that, newsgroup
messages (Headers and Message Bodies) were removed after x number of days
using practically the same settings in Options.

--
Louise

"PA Bear" wrote;

Louise wrote:
I am having a problem with old newsgroup messages in Outlook Express 6 on
Windows XP SP2.

I have these settings in Tools Options Maintenance set;

[Ticked] Delete read message bodies in newsgroups.
[Ticked] Delete news messages 2 days after being downloaded.

The messages do not go, they hang around forever!!!

As others have said, neither of those options will delete message headers,
and it only happens when you compact all OE folders or automatic compating
kicks in.

Is there any way to set the automatic compacting? I have not found a setting
to alter it or turn it off or on.

Surely the ticked option (As it was in Windows 98SE) "Delete news messages
x days after being downloaded." should do what it says, remove the
messages after however many days you pick?

It just seems to have no effect on this PC.

There was no reason to run scannow, and that's about how long it takes to
run it.

Fair enough, I guess it did no harm though?

You'll either have to delete the headers and messages manually or use a
manually applied News rule periodically to do it ("Where the message was
sent XX days ago, ...Delete it").

Okay, just seems weird to me that 98SE did all this without any special
rules being set up.

If you do a Catch Up on a newsgroup and find later that OE offers all
messages again, either there's a problem on the newsserver or your current
identity is damaged and needs to be replace.

Okay, I will keep an eye on that.

General OE Caveats:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Disable Background Compacting [not available in SP2] and frequently
perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working offline". More
at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

Thanks for this link, seems to have quite a bit of info and is answering
some of my questions from above.

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt
to close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic
Compacting is taking place.

- Your anti-virus application's email scanning feature can also cause such
corruption. Disable it. It provides no additional protection.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Thanks for your advice.

--
Louise

I stand to be corrected, but you can not automatically delete message bodies
or headers with XP2. OE used to delete message bodies after the number of
days selected when it compacted in the background.

With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to problems it
caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100 OE closings, which
you should do, and don't touch anything until it has finished. If you
compact manually, at your convenience, this will also set the counter back
to zero. See this for more information:
http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact

XP2 removed the capability to do what you want. For me, I just click on the
oldest message, scroll to the newest one I want deleted and click on it
while holding down the Shift key. This will highlight the whole block of
posts and tapping the Delete key gets rid of them.
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
Imperial Beach, CA


"Louise" wrote in message
...
"PA Bear" wrote;

Louise wrote:
I am having a problem with old newsgroup messages in Outlook Express 6
on
Windows XP SP2.

I have these settings in Tools Options Maintenance set;

[Ticked] Delete read message bodies in newsgroups.
[Ticked] Delete news messages 2 days after being downloaded.

The messages do not go, they hang around forever!!!

As others have said, neither of those options will delete message
headers, and it only happens when you compact all OE folders or automatic
compating kicks in.

Is there any way to set the automatic compacting? I have not found a
setting to alter it or turn it off or on.

Surely the ticked option (As it was in Windows 98SE) "Delete news messages
x days after being downloaded." should do what it says, remove the
messages after however many days you pick?

It just seems to have no effect on this PC.

There was no reason to run scannow, and that's about how long it takes to
run it.

Fair enough, I guess it did no harm though?

You'll either have to delete the headers and messages manually or use a
manually applied News rule periodically to do it ("Where the message was
sent XX days ago, ...Delete it").

Okay, just seems weird to me that 98SE did all this without any special
rules being set up.

If you do a Catch Up on a newsgroup and find later that OE offers all
messages again, either there's a problem on the newsserver or your
current identity is damaged and needs to be replace.

Okay, I will keep an eye on that.

General OE Caveats:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Disable Background Compacting [not available in SP2] and frequently
perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working offline". More
at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

Thanks for this link, seems to have quite a bit of info and is answering
some of my questions from above.

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt
to close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic
Compacting is taking place.

- Your anti-virus application's email scanning feature can also cause
such corruption. Disable it. It provides no additional protection.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

Thanks for your advice.

--
Louise

"Louise" wrote in message
news

"VanguardLH" wrote;

"Louise" wrote;
I am having a problem with old newsgroup messages in Outlook
Express 6 on Windows XP SP2.

I have these settings in Tools Options Maintenance set;

[Ticked] Delete read message bodies in newsgroups.
[Ticked] Delete news messages 2 days after being downloaded.

The messages do not go, they hang around forever!!!

Have also tried the Windows repair thing (Start Run sfc
/scannow press ENTER.) as per MS's site and that did nothing,
not even a message, but took a good 10 minutes or so to run.

Nothing seems to have made a difference and yet everything else
works fine. Except one newsgroup (even though I have clicked
'Catch Up') still tries to download *all* the thousands of
messages every now and then!?

You forgot to mention something or perhaps to notice it: Those
options are under the "When compacting ..." group of options.
Well, that means WHEN compaction occurs is WHEN those options are
honored. Did you actually perform a manual compaction? No? Well,
then those options aren't effected until OE happens to get around
to doing the compaction itself which, after WinXP SP-2, will be
every 100 sessions of OE.

I did not notice that it was specifically under the Compacting
section but I have done several manual compactions and that has not
got rid of any of the messages.

How come this never used to be the case with Windows 98? On that,
newsgroup messages (Headers and Message Bodies) were removed after
x number of days using practically the same settings in Options.

So how do you know that the bodies of the posts did not get removed?
After all, if you select them to check then you have told OE to go
retrieve them if the body was missing. You might notice it takes a
bit longer to read the body of a post when it must be retrieved rather
than if it was downloaded before and still there. When you compact,
notice the current size of your message store. After you compact, the
total files size should go down (if any content had been removed by
the compaction).

Just to be sure, are you asking about removing old *newsgroup* posts
or e-mails? Compaction does not apply against e-mails, only against
newsgroups.

Have you actually *read* the messages that you think should have been
deleted by the expiration setting? If you haven't read them then they
haven't been downloaded. Getting the message headers to show a list
of posts is not downloading them (in their entirety). The NNTP client
will get only the headers needed to compile a list of posts. That is
not downloading the posts. When you click on a post to select it then
its body gets downloaded, and it is from THEN that the expiration is
counted (i.e., when you actually *downloaded* the post and not based
on the date of the post). If you are told to empty water from your
cupped hand after it has been there for 1 minute, you would actually
have to put water in your cupped hand to then start the timer. The
water in the bucket doesn't get timed because it hasn't been put in
your cupped hand yet. How long the water has been in the bucket is
irrelevant since the timer starts when the water in bucket has been
put into your *hand*. The bucket got filled 5 days ago. That has
nothing to do with the 1-minute timer of when to empty your cupped
hand AFTER water has been put into it.

As another person put it, "All newsgroup messages are deleted after
they have been on your computer for the specified number of days."
The messages aren't *on* your computer until you download them.
That's not the same thing as a list of those messages. Some users
still use dial-up, and some of those pay by minute, so they use
syncrhonization with the newsgroups configured to download the posts
(and not just the headers) so they can read them while offline. So as
to when the timer starts depends on whether or not the post actually
got downloaded. Remember there is a difference between reading a post
and downloading it. A message in the list is not downloading it, and
you can download the post without reading it. If you use the
Synchronize function, you can configure OE to download the messages (I
just have it download the headers). That means when you sync, OE
downloads either all messages or just new messages from the newsgroups
under the NNTP server that you chose to sync on. You haven't read
those messages yet but you have downloaded them. With the "Delete
after N days after downloaded" option enabled, you have that long to
actually read them before they get wiped (and you'll have to download
them again). Reading a message might download it then or it might
just use the already downloaded copy. Downloading a message doesn't
mean that you are now reading it. You might read it later, say, while
offline. In like fashion, when your e-mail client polls for new
mails, they get downloaded but you haven't actually read them yet.

One option is based on when you *read* a message. Another is based on
when you downloaded it regardless of whether you read it or not. When
the newspaper is delivered to your door, it has been downloaded but
you haven't read it yet. You have N days to then read that newspaper.
If you get to the newspaper before the Nth day, you might rip out the
pages as your read them to progressively make the newspaper smaller.

So you are running into *two* conditions for the "Delete messages N
days after downloaded" option:
- It only applies during compaction.
- The expiration is honored from whenever the message got downloaded
*if* it ever got downloaded. Retrieving headers for messages is not
considered downloading those messages. A message that has been
downloaded may not have been read yet but not reading it doesn't
affect the expiration.

If you use the "?" titlebar icon (click on it) to get help on settings
in a configuration panel (click on the item after clicking on "?"),
you'll see a bit more help on these options describe them as follows

Delete read message bodies in newsgroups
Specifies whether Outlook Express should delete all read newsgroup
messages stored on your computer when you quit Outlook Express.
(Hmm, looks like it isn't dependent on when compaction occurs at all.
Or the help is out of sync with what is inferred by the organization
of settings in the configuration panel.)

Delete news messages N days after they have been downloaded
Specified whether Outlook Express should delete all newsgroup messages
from your computer after they have been on your computer than the
specified number of days.
(They won't be on your computer, or downloaded, unless you have *read*
them.)

Even with "Delete news messages 5 days after they have been
downloaded" enabled in my OE, I've seen posts remain in the message
list that are a month old - but then I never did read those posts
which means they never got downloaded (and I don't use syncrhonization
to download the messages to read them sometime later). I don't know
why the help says the "Delete read message bodies in newsgroups" is
effected on exit from OE since that won't help reduce the sizes of the
database files. Removing content or deleting posts won't remove their
records from the database. That happens only from compaction. The
help doesn't jive with what they show in the config panel.

Instead I use a rule that says to delete messages that are 5 days
*old* based on their datestamp. That is measured by their *date*stamp
(and does not start from the current timestamp, as in 1 day = 24
hours, but instead is based on day boundaries). Some folks figure
that this rule should not be enabled for automatic execution because
you will run it manually to get rid of old messages and under the
presumption that new posts that you retrieve today wouldn't be that
old yet. However, if you don't poll for new messages every day then
some "new" ones might already be older than the 5-day window that I
want. Also, this enabled rule does help to eliminate posts that some
users deliberately mis-date with a future year or month so they can
get their posts at the top of the sorted message list (but not if
these abusers only move their date ahead by less than 5 days). OE
counts both backward AND forward for expiration, so my rule to delete
messages more than 5 days old will also delete messages dated more
than 5 days into the future. For a vast majority of the posts, and
because I poll for new messages at less than 5-day intervals, this
rule doesn't apply against them. If, however, I vacationed for 2 or 3
weeks and came back to poll for new messages, those over 5 days old
still get their headers retrieved but then this rule gets rid of them
so I don't see messages over that old. Also, if I visit a new
newsgroup, and because I don't use the option to limit the number of
headers retrieved to 300 or 1000 (because very busy newsgroups could
have more than that many posts inside my 5-day window), I end up
retrieving thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of headers but the
rule gets rid of those over 5 days old since I really don't want to
bother with messages older than that. I also don't want to keep using
the "Tools - Get Next n Messages" menu to keep filling up the message
list to account for the last 5 days in a really busy newsgroup that
has several hundred posts each day; i.e., I don't want to keep pumping
the handle to fill in my 5-day window with repeated use of "Get Next n
Messages". By keeping my expiration rule enabled: future-dated posts
(beyond 5 days) are eliminated, I fill up the 5-day window but not
beyond that when visiting new newsgroups, and I only get a recent
5-day supply of new posts after returning to a newsgroup after an
extended absence.

I don't really want to keep a list of posts over 5 days just because I
never *downloaded* them (by viewing their body). There are lots of
posts that I will choose not to read and hence not downloaded but I
don't want them lingering around even in the list beyond my 5-day
window. So every few days, I run my rule manually. Leaving the rule
enabled has some other nice side effects as noted above.

Just remember that reading and downloading posts is not the same
thing.
- You might download a post today but not read it until a month later.
- You might download a post, especially when using synchronization,
and never bother to read it.
- You might read a post which makes it download now.

Louise wrote:
"PA Bear" wrote;

Louise wrote:
I am having a problem with old newsgroup messages in Outlook Express 6
on
Windows XP SP2.

I have these settings in Tools Options Maintenance set;

[Ticked] Delete read message bodies in newsgroups.
[Ticked] Delete news messages 2 days after being downloaded.

The messages do not go, they hang around forever!!!

As others have said, neither of those options will delete message
headers,
and it only happens when you compact all OE folders or automatic
compating
kicks in.

Is there any way to set the automatic compacting? I have not found a
setting
to alter it or turn it off or on.

No. Frequently compact all OE folders manually and you'll never encounter
automatic compacting.

Surely the ticked option (As it was in Windows 98SE) "Delete news messages
x days after being downloaded." should do what it says, remove the
messages after however many days you pick?

It just seems to have no effect on this PC.

It does exactly what it did in Win98: It deletes downloaded message bodies,
only. If you want to delete downloaded headers, you must do so
manually...or wait until they expire on the server (when they'll be
automatically deleted in OE the next time OE syncs with the newsserver).

Now, you may have been accessing the newsgroups via a different newsserver
before. Some newsservers only retain messages for a brief period (1-3 days)
while others have a longer retention policy. By default, messages remain on
the MS newsserver for at least 90 days.

There was no reason to run scannow, and that's about how long it takes to
run it.

Fair enough, I guess it did no harm though?

You'll either have to delete the headers and messages manually or use a
manually applied News rule periodically to do it ("Where the message was
sent XX days ago, ...Delete it").

Okay, just seems weird to me that 98SE did all this without any special
rules being set up.

Nope, it works exactly as it did in Win98.

If you do a Catch Up on a newsgroup and find later that OE offers all
messages again, either there's a problem on the newsserver or your
current
identity is damaged and needs to be replace.

Okay, I will keep an eye on that.

General OE Caveats:

- Don't use Inbox or Sent Items to archive messages. Move them to local
folders created for this purpose.

- Empty Deleted Items folder daily.

- Disable Background Compacting [not available in SP2] and frequently
perform a manual compact of all OE folders while "working offline". More
at http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm

Thanks for this link, seems to have quite a bit of info and is answering
some of my questions from above.

- Do not cancel Automatic Compacting, should it occur, and do not attempt
to close OE via Task Manager or shutdown your machine if Automatic
Compacting is taking place.

- Your anti-virus application's email scanning feature can also cause
such
corruption. Disable it. It provides no additional protection.
--
Thanks for your advice.

YW.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE, OE, Security, Shell/User)
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

"Bruce Hagen" wrote;

I stand to be corrected, but you can not automatically delete message
bodies or headers with XP2. OE used to delete message bodies after the
number of days selected when it compacted in the background.

With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to problems it
caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100 OE closings, which
you should do, and don't touch anything until it has finished. If you
compact manually, at your convenience, this will also set the counter back
to zero. See this for more information:
http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact

XP2 removed the capability to do what you want. For me, I just click on
the oldest message, scroll to the newest one I want deleted and click on
it while holding down the Shift key. This will highlight the whole block
of posts and tapping the Delete key gets rid of them.
--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP Outlook Express
Imperial Beach, CA

Thanks for the tips, link and advice Bruce (and others in this thread), much
appreciated and I think I have a better understanding of what is going on
now.

Seems it is all to do with the automatic compacting that used to be done in
the background on 98SE whereas now it is less frequent and ideally needs to
be done by the user at regular intervals. I will see how I get on with
that - I did a compact last night and all seemed to go okay. Plus, having
the ability to delete messages is very handy!

--
Thanks again,
Louise