You're such a tease, Russ g

--
Ken Slovak
[MVP - Outlook]
http://www.slovaktech.com
Author: Professional Programming Outlook 2007.
Reminder Manager, Extended Reminders, Attachment Options.
http://www.slovaktech.com/products.htm


"Russ Valentine" wrote in message
...
Not very.
--
Russ Valentine

"Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
That requires the people in this forum to use both programs and be
familiar with both programs. The people here are Outlook users, and, in
general NOT Outlook Express users. Asking "which is better, Outlook
Express or Outlook" here is like asking us to compare e-mail and heart
surgery. Sure, someone in the group may be a cardiologist and be able to
give you guidance, but how likely is it?
--
Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 20:49:01 -0800, Rosa
wrote:

Hi Ken,

Thanks for taking the time to provide me with some insight.


You're welcome. Glad to help.




Answer-3, In my original post, I stated I was not interested in any form or
internet based, or web-based email. You suggested "Windows Live Mail". Is
that "client" based, or an "internet/web based" email set up?



Windows Live Mail is not web-based. It's an E-mail client. It's
essentially just the latest version of Outlook Express, with a new and
very different name.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Rosa wrote:

With Microsoft, it appears I have two choices, Outlook, or Outlook Express.

You'll only get Outlook Express if you stay with Windows XP as your latest
version of Windows (whether as a stand-alone install of Windows XP or as the
XP mode available in Windows 7). OE went dead back in 2006 and is
unsupported. In Vista, Windows Mail (WM) replaced OE. In Windows 7, no
e-mail client is included. Windows Live Mail (WLM) is Microsoft's replaced
for both OE and WM.

Up front I'm stating, not interested in all the bells and whistles that may
or may not be added on to what I'm looking for in an excellent email program,
I.E. calendar, scheduling, and whatever may be available. I'm simply looking
for the best darn client based email program that exists, whether it's free,
or, I have to pay for it.

"Best" is subjective even if money is no object. I know many users that
won't use Outlook because it is the monster swiss knife of an e-mail client
when they want just a 2-blade version that they can understand and handle.

So, between Outlook and Outlook Express, what are the pros and cons about
one versus the other?

- Will you be connecting to an MS-Exchange mail server which is required for
all the enterprise-level functions in Outlook?
- The what types of e-mail servers will you connect (POP, IMAP,
HTTP/Deltasync, Exchange, SMTP)?
- Are you going to use the Journal and Notes features of Outlook? Or just
e-mail and possibly calendaring?

Please don't waste your time or mine tellilng me about the stuff I've stated
I'm not interested in.

But you haven't stated the "stuff you're not interested in".

Simply want to compare Outlook vs Outlook Express's
email program and how either will serve me best.

That depends on which version of Windows you are using and will be using.
You do realize, right, that OE doesn't have a calendar which was one the
requirements you asked for and which immediately disqualifies OE.

My needs:

1 - I will want to set up a minimum of three email addreses, for business
and personal uses.

Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM will all handle that.

2 - Will need an address/conact book that can handle the details of each
contact.

Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM will all handle that.

3 - Will need to back-up the emails and contact data fairly easily so if my
hard drives crash or the program becomes corrupt somehow I have my info that
can be quickly, easily and confidently restored to the email program for easy
"up and running use again".

Any backup or imaging program of your choice can handle backing up the data
files for Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM.

4 - Must have reputable security in place.

Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM will all handle that by defaulting to the
Restricted Sites security zone when rendering HTML-formatted e-mails. Not
an issue with plain-text e-mails (or if you configure the e-mail client to
read only in plain text mode). Outlook 2003, and up, OE, WM, and WLM can
all block externally linked images (to eliminate web beacons in
HTML-formatted e-mails). Beyond that you will have to define what you mean
by "security".

5 - Must be able to handle allot of daily email to each email address where
I can separate, sort, and organize the incoming and outgoing email in a
manner I choose, such as a tree lilke structure with folders I choose to set
up and arrange.

Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM will all handle that via rules.

6 - Must have "average or above" email formatting abilities, with the
ability to add attachments of "most all"common types.

Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM will all handle that. In Outlook, you can elect to
use Word as your new-mail editor (only necessary for HTML-formatted
e-mails); however, Word is not the best HTML editor and inserts code usable
only by a recipient that also happens to use Word to view their received
e-mails. All of them have an embedded new-mail editor that lets you create
HTML-formatted e-mails (except Outlook 2007 which forces users to use Word).
None of them can generate as complicated an HTML page as can an HTML editor
designed to compile web pages; however, there are many objects in HTML which
are usable in e-mails, like scripts (as that is a security risk that e-mail
clients will disable).

Again, please don't waste anybody's time with stuff that's not relevant to
my question.

This is Usenet. It is an anarchy. You cannot command anyone with regards
to who or how they reply. You will get whatever they want to post. In
fact, being deliberately blind to alternate choices makes you look stubborn
and foolish, especially when there might be equal but free solutions. I
know of an Outlook look-alike that is free -- but then you don't want to
hear about it.

Outlook or Outlook Express? For EMAIL PURPOSES. One or the other, Why vs
Why Not?

You never mentioned WHICH version of Windows that you already have. If it
is Windows XP (or Windows 7 with XP Mode and VirtualPC 2007 installed) then
you can already trial Outlook Express for yourself. You can get a trial of
MS Office to see what Outlook is like (and even run it inside of a virtual
machine).

In the beginning, you mentioned calendaring and scheduling which is not
available in OE. Yet in your delineated list of requirements, you never
mentioned the need for calendaring and scheduling. Outlook has a calendar
and journal. OE does not.

After all, successful business is about making things simpler, not more
complicated, when it comes to getting the job at hand done! Email that is.

If Google Wave takes off, and because they are defining an open standard so
there can be non-Google Wave providers (and why a *protocol* for e-mail
allowed anyone to establish an e-mail service rather than using a
proprietary product controlled by one source), e-mail might go the way of
the fax. E-mail is 30 years old. You're "new" business requirement is
coming on the tail end of e-mail's era.

(http://wave.google.com)

Thanks for any help with info that will help me make my decision when it
comes to Outlook vs Outlook Express.

Lots he
http://www.google.com/search?q=%2Bou...2Bdi fference

Bye.

Hi VanguardLH,

Thank you for your answers, let me get into them below.

Regarding your answers to my original post:

The fact that OE will not be supported as the Microsoft Op Systems progress
over the upcoming years, is a very valid point, and probably the best answer
I've received on specifically why Outlook will be a better choice for me.
Good one!

Point taken on my use of the word "BEST", true it's very subjective. So let
me get more specific to your specific follow up questions.

No Exchange Server / Yes, POP email server / For immediate and foreseable
future, just email, possibly in the future the calendar, no journaling, no
tasks, no notes / Currently running XP on all machines, not interested in
Vista, will upgrade to Win-7 on all machines at some point in the future / As
posted, I want only a client based email program.

You had mentioned WM and WLM. Are those "client" based programs?

Regarding your "usenet" comments, have you ever been the person that signs
the paychecks for several dozen emloyees? If so, you can then begin to
understand my comments about not wanting to waste peoples time and vice
versa. Just a bad business habit I formed over the years.

Regarding your comments on "if google wave takes off", you have a good point
about the future, but I never said I had a "new" business, or a "new business
requirement". I have had my current business since 1993, and started to use
email in 1994.

How long have your viably been communicating with email, in business that
is? or otherwise? If pre 1994, my follow up question is, what email program
were you specifically using back then?

Thanks,

Rosa



"VanguardLH" wrote:

Rosa wrote:

With Microsoft, it appears I have two choices, Outlook, or Outlook Express.

You'll only get Outlook Express if you stay with Windows XP as your latest
version of Windows (whether as a stand-alone install of Windows XP or as the
XP mode available in Windows 7). OE went dead back in 2006 and is
unsupported. In Vista, Windows Mail (WM) replaced OE. In Windows 7, no
e-mail client is included. Windows Live Mail (WLM) is Microsoft's replaced
for both OE and WM.

Up front I'm stating, not interested in all the bells and whistles that may
or may not be added on to what I'm looking for in an excellent email program,
I.E. calendar, scheduling, and whatever may be available. I'm simply looking
for the best darn client based email program that exists, whether it's free,
or, I have to pay for it.

"Best" is subjective even if money is no object. I know many users that
won't use Outlook because it is the monster swiss knife of an e-mail client
when they want just a 2-blade version that they can understand and handle.

So, between Outlook and Outlook Express, what are the pros and cons about
one versus the other?

- Will you be connecting to an MS-Exchange mail server which is required for
all the enterprise-level functions in Outlook?
- The what types of e-mail servers will you connect (POP, IMAP,
HTTP/Deltasync, Exchange, SMTP)?
- Are you going to use the Journal and Notes features of Outlook? Or just
e-mail and possibly calendaring?

Please don't waste your time or mine tellilng me about the stuff I've stated
I'm not interested in.

But you haven't stated the "stuff you're not interested in".

Simply want to compare Outlook vs Outlook Express's
email program and how either will serve me best.

That depends on which version of Windows you are using and will be using.
You do realize, right, that OE doesn't have a calendar which was one the
requirements you asked for and which immediately disqualifies OE.

My needs:

1 - I will want to set up a minimum of three email addreses, for business
and personal uses.

Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM will all handle that.

2 - Will need an address/conact book that can handle the details of each
contact.

Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM will all handle that.

3 - Will need to back-up the emails and contact data fairly easily so if my
hard drives crash or the program becomes corrupt somehow I have my info that
can be quickly, easily and confidently restored to the email program for easy
"up and running use again".

Any backup or imaging program of your choice can handle backing up the data
files for Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM.

4 - Must have reputable security in place.

Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM will all handle that by defaulting to the
Restricted Sites security zone when rendering HTML-formatted e-mails. Not
an issue with plain-text e-mails (or if you configure the e-mail client to
read only in plain text mode). Outlook 2003, and up, OE, WM, and WLM can
all block externally linked images (to eliminate web beacons in
HTML-formatted e-mails). Beyond that you will have to define what you mean
by "security".

5 - Must be able to handle allot of daily email to each email address where
I can separate, sort, and organize the incoming and outgoing email in a
manner I choose, such as a tree lilke structure with folders I choose to set
up and arrange.

Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM will all handle that via rules.

6 - Must have "average or above" email formatting abilities, with the
ability to add attachments of "most all"common types.

Outlook, OE, WM, and WLM will all handle that. In Outlook, you can elect to
use Word as your new-mail editor (only necessary for HTML-formatted
e-mails); however, Word is not the best HTML editor and inserts code usable
only by a recipient that also happens to use Word to view their received
e-mails. All of them have an embedded new-mail editor that lets you create
HTML-formatted e-mails (except Outlook 2007 which forces users to use Word).
None of them can generate as complicated an HTML page as can an HTML editor
designed to compile web pages; however, there are many objects in HTML which
are usable in e-mails, like scripts (as that is a security risk that e-mail
clients will disable).

Again, please don't waste anybody's time with stuff that's not relevant to
my question.

This is Usenet. It is an anarchy. You cannot command anyone with regards
to who or how they reply. You will get whatever they want to post. In
fact, being deliberately blind to alternate choices makes you look stubborn
and foolish, especially when there might be equal but free solutions. I
know of an Outlook look-alike that is free -- but then you don't want to
hear about it.

Outlook or Outlook Express? For EMAIL PURPOSES. One or the other, Why vs
Why Not?

You never mentioned WHICH version of Windows that you already have. If it
is Windows XP (or Windows 7 with XP Mode and VirtualPC 2007 installed) then
you can already trial Outlook Express for yourself. You can get a trial of
MS Office to see what Outlook is like (and even run it inside of a virtual
machine).

In the beginning, you mentioned calendaring and scheduling which is not
available in OE. Yet in your delineated list of requirements, you never
mentioned the need for calendaring and scheduling. Outlook has a calendar
and journal. OE does not.

After all, successful business is about making things simpler, not more
complicated, when it comes to getting the job at hand done! Email that is.

If Google Wave takes off, and because they are defining an open standard so
there can be non-Google Wave providers (and why a *protocol* for e-mail
allowed anyone to establish an e-mail service rather than using a
proprietary product controlled by one source), e-mail might go the way of
the fax. E-mail is 30 years old. You're "new" business requirement is
coming on the tail end of e-mail's era.

(http://wave.google.com)

Thanks for any help with info that will help me make my decision when it
comes to Outlook vs Outlook Express.

Lots he
http://www.google.com/search?q=%2Bou...2Bdi fference

Bye.
.

On 3/9/2010 5:54 PM, Rosa wrote:
Hi forum members,

This is the first time I've posted at this forum, and probably the best
place for me to start to look for answers to my qustions.

I want to completely switch from my web based email, to an excellent
"client" based email program, with the emphasis on "client" based, not
internet/web based email.

With Microsoft, it appears I have two choices, Outlook, or Outlook Express.

Up front I'm stating, not interested in all the bells and whistles that may
or may not be added on to what I'm looking for in an excellent email program,
I.E. calendar, scheduling, and whatever may be available. I'm simply looking
for the best darn client based email program that exists, whether it's free,
or, I have to pay for it.

So, between Outlook and Outlook Express, what are the pros and cons about
one versus the other?

Please don't waste your time or mine tellilng me about the stuff I've stated
I'm not interested in. Simply want to compare Outlook vs Outlook Express's
email program and how either will serve me best.

My needs:

1 - I will want to set up a minimum of three email addreses, for business
and personal uses.

2 - Will need an address/conact book that can handle the details of each
contact.

3 - Will need to back-up the emails and contact data fairly easily so if my
hard drives crash or the program becomes corrupt somehow I have my info that
can be quickly, easily and confidently restored to the email program for easy
"up and running use again".

4 - Must have reputable security in place.

5 - Must be able to handle allot of daily email to each email address where
I can separate, sort, and organize the incoming and outgoing email in a
manner I choose, such as a tree lilke structure with folders I choose to set
up and arrange.

6 - Must have "average or above" email formatting abilities, with the
ability to add attachments of "most all"common types.


Again, please don't waste anybody's time with stuff that's not relevant to
my question.

Outlook or Outlook Express? For EMAIL PURPOSES. One or the other, Why vs
Why Not?

After all, successful business is about making things simpler, not more
complicated, when it comes to getting the job at hand done! Email that is.

Thanks for any help with info that will help me make my decision when it
comes to Outlook vs Outlook Express.

best to all,

Roas
Hi Rosa,
Following in order my favorites:
Mozilla Thunderbird
Microsoft Outlook 2010
Zimbra Desktop
The Bat!
Windows Live Mail

I now use Mozilla Thunderbird 3.0.3 with:
1 GMail account
4 Google Apps Business accounts
1 Microsoft Live account
1 GMX account (pop3 for testing)
1 Usenet account
37 RSS
1 Calendar fully synchronized with Google Calendar (personal)
2 Calendars fully synchronized with Google Apps Calendar (business)
1 Google Contacts full sync with Personal Address Book
1 Google Contacts full sync with Business Address Book

I am a network engineer and I have an IT company, I can even remote
connect and help you with the configuration you prefer.
Just let me know.

Hi Sam,

Very concise and helpful. Thank you very much.

I'll look into your first choice.

very best,

Rosa

"eam" wrote:

On 3/9/2010 5:54 PM, Rosa wrote:
Hi forum members,

This is the first time I've posted at this forum, and probably the best
place for me to start to look for answers to my qustions.

I want to completely switch from my web based email, to an excellent
"client" based email program, with the emphasis on "client" based, not
internet/web based email.

With Microsoft, it appears I have two choices, Outlook, or Outlook Express.

Up front I'm stating, not interested in all the bells and whistles that may
or may not be added on to what I'm looking for in an excellent email program,
I.E. calendar, scheduling, and whatever may be available. I'm simply looking
for the best darn client based email program that exists, whether it's free,
or, I have to pay for it.

So, between Outlook and Outlook Express, what are the pros and cons about
one versus the other?

Please don't waste your time or mine tellilng me about the stuff I've stated
I'm not interested in. Simply want to compare Outlook vs Outlook Express's
email program and how either will serve me best.

My needs:

1 - I will want to set up a minimum of three email addreses, for business
and personal uses.

2 - Will need an address/conact book that can handle the details of each
contact.

3 - Will need to back-up the emails and contact data fairly easily so if my
hard drives crash or the program becomes corrupt somehow I have my info that
can be quickly, easily and confidently restored to the email program for easy
"up and running use again".

4 - Must have reputable security in place.

5 - Must be able to handle allot of daily email to each email address where
I can separate, sort, and organize the incoming and outgoing email in a
manner I choose, such as a tree lilke structure with folders I choose to set
up and arrange.

6 - Must have "average or above" email formatting abilities, with the
ability to add attachments of "most all"common types.


Again, please don't waste anybody's time with stuff that's not relevant to
my question.

Outlook or Outlook Express? For EMAIL PURPOSES. One or the other, Why vs
Why Not?

After all, successful business is about making things simpler, not more
complicated, when it comes to getting the job at hand done! Email that is.

Thanks for any help with info that will help me make my decision when it
comes to Outlook vs Outlook Express.

best to all,

Roas
Hi Rosa,
Following in order my favorites:
Mozilla Thunderbird
Microsoft Outlook 2010
Zimbra Desktop
The Bat!
Windows Live Mail

I now use Mozilla Thunderbird 3.0.3 with:
1 GMail account
4 Google Apps Business accounts
1 Microsoft Live account
1 GMX account (pop3 for testing)
1 Usenet account
37 RSS
1 Calendar fully synchronized with Google Calendar (personal)
2 Calendars fully synchronized with Google Apps Calendar (business)
1 Google Contacts full sync with Personal Address Book
1 Google Contacts full sync with Business Address Book

I am a network engineer and I have an IT company, I can even remote
connect and help you with the configuration you prefer.
Just let me know.
.

"Rosa" wrote in message
...

I want to completely switch from my web based email, to an excellent
"client" based email program, with the emphasis on "client" based, not
internet/web based email.

All e-mail is "internet-based". You need to have a mail server on a network
somewhere.

With Microsoft, it appears I have two choices, Outlook, or Outlook Express.

Actually, there's also Windows Live Mail, which is like Outlook Express in its
operation. With a Windows Live account, you also get a calendar.

I'm simply looking
for the best darn client based email program that exists, whether it's free,
or, I have to pay for it.

There is no such thing, any more than saying that you want the "best darned
piece of pie." It depends on your individual needs and desires. Many people
love Thunderbird, some think Pegasus Mail is great, others swear by Eudora.

So, between Outlook and Outlook Express, what are the pros and cons about
one versus the other?

Outlook Express doesn't work on any version of Windows after XP. Outlook
does. OE doesn't have a calendar, tasks, a journal, or notes. Outlook does.
It's a full-fledged PIM (Personal Information Manager). OE can't sync with
handheld devices. Outlook can, often (but not always - it depends on the
device and the device's vendor).

Please don't waste your time or mine tellilng me about the stuff I've stated
I'm not interested in. Simply want to compare Outlook vs Outlook Express's
email program and how either will serve me best.

OE is a simpler program.

1 - I will want to set up a minimum of three email addreses, for business
and personal uses.

Both will do this.

2 - Will need an address/conact book that can handle the details of each
contact.

Either will do this, but I think Outlook is more comprehensive for this.

3 - Will need to back-up the emails and contact data fairly easily so if my
hard drives crash or the program becomes corrupt somehow I have my info that
can be quickly, easily and confidently restored to the email program for
easy
"up and running use again".

Easily done for either.

4 - Must have reputable security in place.

Both do, but in my opinion, Outlook is somewhat more secure.

5 - Must be able to handle allot of daily email to each email address where
I can separate, sort, and organize the incoming and outgoing email in a
manner I choose, such as a tree lilke structure with folders I choose to set
up and arrange.

Either

6 - Must have "average or above" email formatting abilities, with the
ability to add attachments of "most all"common types.

I have no idea what you mean by "average or above", since you don't state a
baseline. Either allows attachments of any kind. Nearly any mail client
will. As for message formatting itself, my opinion is that Outlook can do a
better job, but either is probably "good enough".

Outlook or Outlook Express? For EMAIL PURPOSES. One or the other, Why vs
Why Not?

You're comparing apples and oranges. Since much of what Outlook can do
doesn't involve mail, not allowing people to compare the entire programs is
like asking people "which is better, Notepad or Word?" Outlook is designed to
do more than handle mail. If you don't need the things it can do that don't
involve mail, why it in the comparison at all?
--
Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

Hello Brian,

Thank you for all the info you provided.

Rosa

"Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

"Rosa" wrote in message
...

I want to completely switch from my web based email, to an excellent
"client" based email program, with the emphasis on "client" based, not
internet/web based email.

All e-mail is "internet-based". You need to have a mail server on a network
somewhere.

With Microsoft, it appears I have two choices, Outlook, or Outlook Express.

Actually, there's also Windows Live Mail, which is like Outlook Express in its
operation. With a Windows Live account, you also get a calendar.

I'm simply looking
for the best darn client based email program that exists, whether it's free,
or, I have to pay for it.

There is no such thing, any more than saying that you want the "best darned
piece of pie." It depends on your individual needs and desires. Many people
love Thunderbird, some think Pegasus Mail is great, others swear by Eudora.

So, between Outlook and Outlook Express, what are the pros and cons about
one versus the other?

Outlook Express doesn't work on any version of Windows after XP. Outlook
does. OE doesn't have a calendar, tasks, a journal, or notes. Outlook does.
It's a full-fledged PIM (Personal Information Manager). OE can't sync with
handheld devices. Outlook can, often (but not always - it depends on the
device and the device's vendor).

Please don't waste your time or mine tellilng me about the stuff I've stated
I'm not interested in. Simply want to compare Outlook vs Outlook Express's
email program and how either will serve me best.

OE is a simpler program.

1 - I will want to set up a minimum of three email addreses, for business
and personal uses.

Both will do this.

2 - Will need an address/conact book that can handle the details of each
contact.

Either will do this, but I think Outlook is more comprehensive for this.

3 - Will need to back-up the emails and contact data fairly easily so if my
hard drives crash or the program becomes corrupt somehow I have my info that
can be quickly, easily and confidently restored to the email program for
easy
"up and running use again".

Easily done for either.

4 - Must have reputable security in place.

Both do, but in my opinion, Outlook is somewhat more secure.

5 - Must be able to handle allot of daily email to each email address where
I can separate, sort, and organize the incoming and outgoing email in a
manner I choose, such as a tree lilke structure with folders I choose to set
up and arrange.

Either

6 - Must have "average or above" email formatting abilities, with the
ability to add attachments of "most all"common types.

I have no idea what you mean by "average or above", since you don't state a
baseline. Either allows attachments of any kind. Nearly any mail client
will. As for message formatting itself, my opinion is that Outlook can do a
better job, but either is probably "good enough".

Outlook or Outlook Express? For EMAIL PURPOSES. One or the other, Why vs
Why Not?

You're comparing apples and oranges. Since much of what Outlook can do
doesn't involve mail, not allowing people to compare the entire programs is
like asking people "which is better, Notepad or Word?" Outlook is designed to
do more than handle mail. If you don't need the things it can do that don't
involve mail, why it in the comparison at all?
--
Brian Tillman [MVP-Outlook]

.