Hi,

I did some research on the net and is it true that Outlook 2007 still does
not support newsgroup?

With all the technologies available, why MS insists us to use two programs
for daily task?

Is it so hard for it to understand that many of us wish to use only one
program?

Dnia Mon, 4 Sep 2006 18:30:00 +0800, xfile napisa³(a):

Hi,

I did some research on the net and is it true that Outlook 2007 still does
not support newsgroup?

With all the technologies available, why MS insists us to use two programs
for daily task?

Is it so hard for it to understand that many of us wish to use only one
program?

i think that even MS would add newsgroup reader to Outlook,
everybody would complain that it's not compliant with standards (ISOs, RFCs
etc.)
so, the feature would be useless

--
razor

I don't see what is wrong with the OLX newsgroup viewer. So why not have it
in OL?

"razor" wrote in message
...
Dnia Mon, 4 Sep 2006 18:30:00 +0800, xfile napisa³(a):

Hi,

I did some research on the net and is it true that Outlook 2007 still
does
not support newsgroup?

With all the technologies available, why MS insists us to use two
programs
for daily task?

Is it so hard for it to understand that many of us wish to use only one
program?

i think that even MS would add newsgroup reader to Outlook,
everybody would complain that it's not compliant with standards (ISOs,
RFCs
etc.)
so, the feature would be useless

--
razor

Same here, and that's my main question.


"Yaacov Klapisch" wrote in message
...
I don't see what is wrong with the OLX newsgroup viewer. So why not have it
in OL?

"razor" wrote in message
...
Dnia Mon, 4 Sep 2006 18:30:00 +0800, xfile napisa?a):

Hi,

I did some research on the net and is it true that Outlook 2007 still
does
not support newsgroup?

With all the technologies available, why MS insists us to use two
programs
for daily task?

Is it so hard for it to understand that many of us wish to use only one
program?

i think that even MS would add newsgroup reader to Outlook,
everybody would complain that it's not compliant with standards (ISOs,
RFCs
etc.)
so, the feature would be useless

--
razor

As long as Outlook remains the premier client for Microsoft Exchange, a
corporate mail and collaboration server, you will never see a newsreader in
Outlook. Corporations don't want their employees browsing news groups on
company time and, if they do, there are methods to add them via Exchange.

Just because you can't see the value of having 2 programs for news groups,
does not mean there is not a reason for this. Outlook Express comes with
Windows so anyone who has Windows has news groups. Office does not come
with Windows, is a value added program, and should never duplicate options
found in other programs, such as Outlook Express.

I continually wonder at people who want to add such a heavy overhead to a
program roundly accused of bloat and unnecessary features, yet still
complain when Outlook is slow to load or takes an inordinate amount of time
to perform any task, such as opening a new mail message. Do you really
think that adding all of the crap that comes with a news reader is going to
streamline Outlook and make it work faster, better, leaner?

Get real.


--�
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, xfile asked:

| Hi,
|
| I did some research on the net and is it true that Outlook 2007 still
| does not support newsgroup?
|
| With all the technologies available, why MS insists us to use two
| programs for daily task?
|
| Is it so hard for it to understand that many of us wish to use only
| one program?

Dear Royal MS Knight,

True, many companies - small and large, don't like employees to surf on
non-business-related sites on the business hours, and I fully vote for that.

Are you suggesting that this newsgroup and many for others MS products are
the "same" as porn sites or other non-business-related sites, and people
come here are "only" for their "personal" and "home" technical questions?

Just because you can't see the needs does not give you the rational thoughts
that business people don't need to use Outlook for reading newsgroup.

By the way, can you give a clear definition about "collaboration"? And what
kind of collaboration is allowed and being classified as "business purpose"
and what kinds are not?

Finally, speaking of overhead. BCM is truly an overheard and with almost no
integration with contacts. Do you really think adding newsgroup will
increase additional overhead to Outlook and why is it not for OE?


"Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]"
wrote in message
...
As long as Outlook remains the premier client for Microsoft Exchange, a
corporate mail and collaboration server, you will never see a newsreader
in
Outlook. Corporations don't want their employees browsing news groups on
company time and, if they do, there are methods to add them via Exchange.

Just because you can't see the value of having 2 programs for news groups,
does not mean there is not a reason for this. Outlook Express comes with
Windows so anyone who has Windows has news groups. Office does not come
with Windows, is a value added program, and should never duplicate options
found in other programs, such as Outlook Express.

I continually wonder at people who want to add such a heavy overhead to a
program roundly accused of bloat and unnecessary features, yet still
complain when Outlook is slow to load or takes an inordinate amount of
time
to perform any task, such as opening a new mail message. Do you really
think that adding all of the crap that comes with a news reader is going
to
streamline Outlook and make it work faster, better, leaner?

Get real.


--?
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, xfile asked:

| Hi,
|
| I did some research on the net and is it true that Outlook 2007 still
| does not support newsgroup?
|
| With all the technologies available, why MS insists us to use two
| programs for daily task?
|
| Is it so hard for it to understand that many of us wish to use only
| one program?

"xfile" wrote in message
...
Dear Royal MS Knight,

True, many companies - small and large, don't like employees to surf on
non-business-related sites on the business hours, and I fully vote for
that.

Are you suggesting that this newsgroup and many for others MS products are
the "same" as porn sites or other non-business-related sites, and people
come here are "only" for their "personal" and "home" technical questions?

Just because you can't see the needs does not give you the rational
thoughts that business people don't need to use Outlook for reading
newsgroup.


In a corporate environment, if there is the necessity for Usenet access,
then that can be done using Public Folders within Exchange - therefore no
need for a newsreading capability in Outlook itself.

Hi,

Thanks. So that is, Outlook is reserved for corporate environment with
Exchange Server.

And all other companies without Exchange Server are not within corporate
environment? And why not just bundle OL with Exchange Server and leave it
out from Office?


"Gordon" wrote in message
...
"xfile" wrote in message
...
Dear Royal MS Knight,

True, many companies - small and large, don't like employees to surf on
non-business-related sites on the business hours, and I fully vote for
that.

Are you suggesting that this newsgroup and many for others MS products
are the "same" as porn sites or other non-business-related sites, and
people come here are "only" for their "personal" and "home" technical
questions?

Just because you can't see the needs does not give you the rational
thoughts that business people don't need to use Outlook for reading
newsgroup.


In a corporate environment, if there is the necessity for Usenet access,
then that can be done using Public Folders within Exchange - therefore no
need for a newsreading capability in Outlook itself.

"xfile" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Thanks. So that is, Outlook is reserved for corporate environment with
Exchange Server.

No. But by far the VAST majority of Outlook installations ARE in a
corporate, exchange-server environment.



And all other companies without Exchange Server are not within corporate
environment? And why not just bundle OL with Exchange Server and leave it
out from Office?

You have outlook Express free with Windows. I just don't see what your gripe
is.

"xfile" wrote in message
:

Finally, speaking of overhead. BCM is truly an overheard and with almost no
integration with contacts. Do you really think adding newsgroup will
increase additional overhead to Outlook and why is it not for OE?

No, it would not "increase additional overhead". This excuse is often
thrown about, but having written a newsreader add-in for Outlook, I can
tell you it has absolutely no basis in fact. And I'm sure if you ask
the authors of any of the other newsreader add-ins, they will tell you
the same thing.

Outlook is basically a UI around one or more MAPI-compliant databases
(the .pst and .ost files). Things like emails, tasks, contacts, etc.
are simply records in one of these databases.

In order to send and receive messages or other items, Outlook loads
"transport providers". A transport provider is basically a DLL that
contains code that knows how to connect to a specific type of data
source, and how to read/write records in a MAPI database. Each account
you set up in Outlook is associated with a particular transport
provider.

To send and retrieve POP3 email for example, Outlook loads the POP3
transport provider. Outlook ships with transports for POP3, IMAP, HTTP
and Exchange servers. If you want to retrieve email from Lotus Notes,
you would install a Lotus Notes transport provider. Likewise for any
other information source that someone has written a transport provider
for.

In Outlook 2007, MS added the ability to retrieve RSS feeds and that was
done by writing a transport provider that knows how to connect to an RSS
feed.

To access newsgroups in Outlook, all you need is a transport provider
that knows how to connect to a NNTP server. If third-party vendors such
as myself can write one (using the horribly outdated and incomplete MAPI
documentation), there is no reason why MS couldn't write one too. And
the idea that this would add "overhead" to Outlook is simply absurd. It
would add no more "overhead" than the supplied POP3 transport does.

Outlook is slow, IMO, because it is based on MAPI, a circa-1993
technology that's overly complicated and all but obsolete. I'm a little
surprised that MS hasn't switched to SQL server databases by now, but
perhaps there is too much legacy and third-party code that would break
to make that practical.

And the premise that newsgroups are not useful and have the potential to
be abused in a corporate environment is equally absurd. I've sold a
number of site licenses to large corporations and I'm sure the other
newsgroup add-in vendors have as well. Employees can waste company time
on personal email and RSS feeds too, and Outlook has the ability to
connect to any web site so you can surf porn sites all day long without
ever leaving Outlook. Companies that are worried about this can block
access to HTTP sites, and they could block access to NNTP servers just
as easily.

As to why MS doesn't add newsgroup capabilities to Outlook, only those
folks within Microsoft who make those decisions know the answer to that.

--
Don Caton