I just started evaluating Office 2007 to see what changes there are to
motivate a deployment and what issues there may be.

(I must say I have been somewhat impressed by the "Ribbon" interface
thing, and it does appear and sound convenient, but takes time to get
used to after so long with things in their expected places)

Anyway, trying to see if it is feasible this time to use Outlook 2007
with IMAP, I resumed with an account that was created in the past in
Outlook XP and then in Outlook 2003.

First thing was, I heard that Outlook 2007 should support Unicode data
files for IMAP (meaning Unicode plain-text messages in IMAP).

I wanted to try that, but apparently the data file for that account
remained in its original (ANSI) Outlook 2002 format - why didn't it
didn't it offer to convert it? It turned out that there is no built in
option to convert the data file, but with the instructions in help, I
tried creating a new data file and importing all mail to there. This
all went great, except that I couldn't find a way to change the account
setting to use the new data file I created.

Never mind then, I just created a new account - in IMAP everything's on
the server anyway. Except one thing: It is neccessary here that the
Outlook data file will not be stored on the local disk or in the roaming
profile (which is synchronized every time on log out and log in), but on
the user's home directory in a network share. So I wanted to go the
same way as I did it last time to move the data file to a network share
(mapped to a drive letter), using the instructions at:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/ou...124801033.aspx

However it appears that those instructions do not work in Outlook 2007.
Instead of asking me for a location of the new data file when the one
set was moved, it simply creates a new one in the old location. Which
is not a problem for mail on IMAP since the data file is used only as a
cache anyway. But I just couldn't find how to move the file and get the
account to use a file in another location.

Any advice?

Regards,
-- Tom

--
Tom Alsberg - certified insane, complete illiterate.
Homepage: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~alsbergt/
* An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.

First thing was, I heard that Outlook 2007 should support Unicode data
files for IMAP (meaning Unicode plain-text messages in IMAP).
Actually, it has nothing to do with the IMAP protocol. It refers to the
newer Outlook PST data format.

I wanted to try that, but apparently the data file for that account
remained in its original (ANSI) Outlook 2002 format - why didn't it
didn't it offer to convert it? It turned out that there is no built in
option to convert the data file, but with the instructions in help, I
tried creating a new data file and importing all mail to there. This
all went great, except that I couldn't find a way to change the account
setting to use the new data file I created.
It doesn't offer to convert, because it can't. It should have asked you
though if you wanted to replace it with a Unicode file. In that case, it
basically would have deleted and recreated the file. Deleting and
recreating the account has the same effect.

Never mind then, I just created a new account - in IMAP everything's on
the server anyway. Except one thing: It is neccessary here that the
Outlook data file will not be stored on the local disk or in the roaming
profile (which is synchronized every time on log out and log in), but on
the user's home directory in a network share. So I wanted to go the
same way as I did it last time to move the data file to a network share
(mapped to a drive letter), using the instructions at:
Why not store it on the local disk?
Storing a PST file on a network share is a bad idea in general. It is a
recipe for data file corruption and other problems.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
Office 2007 Beta 2 Technical Refresh (B2TR):
http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/09/18/43
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

Patrick Schmid [MVP] wrote:
First thing was, I heard that Outlook 2007 should support Unicode data
files for IMAP (meaning Unicode plain-text messages in IMAP).

Actually, it has nothing to do with the IMAP protocol. It refers to the
newer Outlook PST data format.

Yeah, that's what I meant. I know that in the past (Outlook XP and
maybe also 2003), PST data files for IMAP folders could not be in
Unicode (but PSTs for local folders, POP3 accounts, and Exchange
accounts could be). I don't know if that's because they were in the old
PST format or simply because there was some limitation that forced IMAP
accounts to use ANSI.

It doesn't offer to convert, because it can't.

Alright, I understood that there's no conversion functionality there.

It should have asked you though if you wanted to replace it with
a Unicode file.

That would be very nice, and would have saved me deleting and recreating
the account.

In that case, it basically would have deleted and recreated the file.
Deleting and recreating the account has the same effect.

Not exactly - the PST data file of the account previously present was in
a network share (mapped to the I: drive). After deleting and recreating
the account, the PST was again in the Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook
folder under the Local Settings directory under the user's profile.

Why not store it on the local disk?

Well, if the user in question does not work on only one workstation,
he'd want his data files to be with him wherever he works...

In the case of IMAP the data files are not so critical as they're used
only for caching and all data remains on the server. But overall, if
the data files are on the local disk, they don't get backed up (we'd be
crazy to back up the local disks of all workstations - that's why we
have file servers with reliable storage and backups for user's roaming
profiles, home directories, and other shared data).

If it'd be in the roaming profile, it'd get copied every time on logoff
and logon, which would be a waste of bandwidth and time (PSTs can get
very large), but as it is, it resides under the Local Settings directory
in the user's profile, so they don't get copied for a roaming profile at
all.

It is a known complaint of Outlook users in a networked environment with
roaming profiles, that they don't see their mail when logging on to
another workstation. I is not clear to me why such important data is
stored in the Local Settings directory.

Storing a PST file on a network share is a bad idea in general.

As I said, in IMAP, it's not so important (although now that I'm trying
out Windows Desktop Search, it appears useful to have the PST files
persistent, so that it does not have to re-index all the time).

But generally, where you have actual (important) messages and data
stored there, what else do you suggest? Having the user leave his
important data somewhere on the local disk of some workstation, which is
not reliable, not backed up, and accessible only from the same workstation?

We try to use the local disks only for the system images and installed
software, and sometimes less-critical big files in work (such as big
videos in editing). But such things as users' and shared documents,
mail, and other data, is of course stored in a central location on a
file server...

It is a recipe for data file corruption and other problems.

Why would it be? If the server is reliable, and file locking works
properly, there should be no corruption...

Among many users I know who worked this way around here with Outlook
2000 to 2003, there was not any problem with the PST on a network share.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]

Still, I'd be interested in some solutions on how to move the data files
in Outlook 2007, as I could in Outlook 2003 using the instructions by
Microsoft.

Regards,
-- Tom

--
Tom Alsberg - certified insane, complete illiterate.
Homepage: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~alsbergt/
* An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.

Yeah, that's what I meant. I know that in the past (Outlook XP and
maybe also 2003), PST data files for IMAP folders could not be in
Unicode (but PSTs for local folders, POP3 accounts, and Exchange
accounts could be). I don't know if that's because they were in the old
PST format or simply because there was some limitation that forced IMAP
accounts to use ANSI.
It was a limitation that forced ANSI.

It should have asked you though if you wanted to replace it with
a Unicode file.

That would be very nice, and would have saved me deleting and recreating
the account.
That question would have created the file locally as well though.

Why not store it on the local disk?

Well, if the user in question does not work on only one workstation,
he'd want his data files to be with him wherever he works...

In the case of IMAP the data files are not so critical as they're used
only for caching and all data remains on the server. But overall, if
the data files are on the local disk, they don't get backed up (we'd be
crazy to back up the local disks of all workstations - that's why we
have file servers with reliable storage and backups for user's roaming
profiles, home directories, and other shared data).
Gotcha. I haven't tried this, but what happens if you let Outlook create
it locally on one computer and then log in with that user on a different
computer? Does it recreate the data file without complaining?

It is a known complaint of Outlook users in a networked environment with
roaming profiles, that they don't see their mail when logging on to
another workstation. I is not clear to me why such important data is
stored in the Local Settings directory.
Because it would otherwise get copied when you log off and on. With the
huge size of PSTs, as you said, that's a bad idea.

Storing a PST file on a network share is a bad idea in general.

As I said, in IMAP, it's not so important (although now that I'm trying
out Windows Desktop Search, it appears useful to have the PST files
persistent, so that it does not have to re-index all the time).
Good point.

But generally, where you have actual (important) messages and data
stored there, what else do you suggest? Having the user leave his
important data somewhere on the local disk of some workstation, which is
not reliable, not backed up, and accessible only from the same workstation?
No.

It is a recipe for data file corruption and other problems.

Why would it be? If the server is reliable, and file locking works
properly, there should be no corruption...
You forgot the network being reliable. If there is a minor glitch while
it is writing to the PST, you can get out scanpst and hope for the best.
Probably not very likely if you have a good fixed LAN, but if you start
talking about WLAN...

Still, I'd be interested in some solutions on how to move the data files
in Outlook 2007, as I could in Outlook 2003 using the instructions by
Microsoft.
Same story as always. Close Outlook. Move the file using Explorer. Then
go into Control Panel, Mail, Data Files and click on that file. It's
going to complain that it can't find the file and bring up a file open
dialog. Select your file at the new location and you should be good to
go.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
Office 2007 Beta 2 Technical Refresh (B2TR):
http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/09/18/43
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

(Sorry for the late reply, was away...)

Patrick Schmid [MVP] wrote:
Gotcha. I haven't tried this, but what happens if you let Outlook create
it locally on one computer and then log in with that user on a different
computer? Does it recreate the data file without complaining?

Yes. But there's data loss (or data that'll be inaccessible from that
computer).

In the case of IMAP the loss is only the indices and cache for Windows
Desktop Search. In the case of other accounts, the loss can be actual
messages.

I is not clear to me why such important data is stored in the Local
Settings directory.
Because it would otherwise get copied when you log off and on. With the
huge size of PSTs, as you said, that's a bad idea.

But the way it is, being stored in the Local Settings folder, misses the
point of Roaming Profiles... The idea behind Roaming Profiles is that a
user's data and settings persist among different workstations, and the
Local Settings folder inside the user's profile is for settings that are
indeed specific to (user, host) combination, like temporary files,
caches, hardware preferences, etc.

It is a recipe for data file corruption and other problems.

Why would it be? If the server is reliable, and file locking works
properly, there should be no corruption...
You forgot the network being reliable.

Yes, that too.

If there is a minor glitch while it is writing to the PST you can get
out scanpst and hope for the best.

Uhmm... That'd be a problem with any other file too. A glitch while
writing my Word document or Access database could also cause corruption.

But assuming any glitch would be caused by a failure and not random
corruption on the server's side, in case the write fails, the
application gets an error message and can retry, revert, or inform the
user. That's what Word and Access, among many other applications, do
when they write files.

Probably not very likely if you have a good fixed LAN, but if you start
talking about WLAN...

Of course. On the other hand, I suppose that it is due to those WLAN
reliability problems that I've never seen a laptop with WLAN that's a
domain member with roaming profiles enabled at all. It would cause much
more trouble than just for Outlook.

Still, I'd be interested in some solutions on how to move the data files
in Outlook 2007, as I could in Outlook 2003 using the instructions by
Microsoft.

Same story as always. Close Outlook. Move the file using Explorer. Then
go into Control Panel, Mail, Data Files and click on that file. It's
going to complain that it can't find the file and bring up a file open
dialog.

Exactly that's where the problem is. Instead of complaining it can't
find the file, it silently recreates a minimal ("empty") file instead.

Select your file at the new location and you should be good to go.

This has always worked for me in the past with Outlook 2000, XP, and
2003, but in 2007 it just doesn't. Have you tried that procedure on
Outlook 2007? Does it work for you?

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]

Thanks for your patience,
-- Tom

--
Tom Alsberg - certified insane, complete illiterate.
Homepage: http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~alsbergt/
* An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.

Hi Tom,

In the case of IMAP the loss is only the indices and cache for Windows
Desktop Search. In the case of other accounts, the loss can be actual
messages.
That's something new we all have to think about now when it comes to
2007. *sigh*
I guess you could try and figure out whether WDS indices can be on
network shares? Maybe WDS has a way of doing that? Because when I look
into WDS, it simply lists the profiles there. I don't know how it
matches profiles though, so it could be possible that it uses username
and the name of the account, in which case WDS should work on another
computer if the indices are on network share and the account name is the
same. If it stores somewhere internally though a reference to the
machine, then you are out of luck.
In WDS, you can change the location via Control Panel, Indexing Options,
Advanced. I don't know if this can be set via GPL.

I is not clear to me why such important data is stored in the Local
Settings directory.
Because it would otherwise get copied when you log off and on. With the
huge size of PSTs, as you said, that's a bad idea.

But the way it is, being stored in the Local Settings folder, misses the
point of Roaming Profiles... The idea behind Roaming Profiles is that a
user's data and settings persist among different workstations, and the
Local Settings folder inside the user's profile is for settings that are
indeed specific to (user, host) combination, like temporary files,
caches, hardware preferences, etc.
But imagine a 1 GB IMAP PST. Having that in the roaming profile would
require it to be copied up and down every time. Keep in mind that
Windows can't do incremental changes to that file, but always has to
copy the full file.
I can understand therefore why the PST files are always kept local. BTW,
Windows Offline Files excludes PSTs by default as well.

If there is a minor glitch while it is writing to the PST you can get
out scanpst and hope for the best.

Uhmm... That'd be a problem with any other file too. A glitch while
writing my Word document or Access database could also cause corruption.
Yes, that's true, but PSTs are especially fragile. Why? In Word, you hit
save only a few times. In Access, it only goes into the DB when you
change records, add a record, run a query etc.
Outlook however accesses the PST constantly. You switch from one email
to another, there is an access. A reminder pops up, etc. What are the
odds that the network will have a glitch exactly at the point in time
when Word is saving or Access is hitting the DB? Now compare that with
the odds that Outlook is using the PST when there is a network glitch.
As Outlook basically accesses the PST all the time, the odds are much
higher. And the consequences are much more grave. One glitch could
completely ruin a several GB PST file beyond any recovery ability. I
don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to be the IT person who has to
explain to some big whig why all his emails, contacts, appts from the
past 5 years are suddenly gone (assuming you didn't back them up). I'd
much rather explain to the same big whig why the Word document he was
working on for a few hrs is corrupt. Both are painful things to explain,
but the impact of a PST failure can be much worse.

Probably not very likely if you have a good fixed LAN, but if you start
talking about WLAN...

Of course. On the other hand, I suppose that it is due to those WLAN
reliability problems that I've never seen a laptop with WLAN that's a
domain member with roaming profiles enabled at all. It would cause much
more trouble than just for Outlook.
I think the problem is rather that WLAN wasn't considered secure enough
for a very long time, so companies didn't do wide-spread deployments
based on WLAN. It's just a question of time till this will happen and
then you will see computers (desktops & laptops) with roaming profiles
using WLAN.

This has always worked for me in the past with Outlook 2000, XP, and
2003, but in 2007 it just doesn't. Have you tried that procedure on
Outlook 2007? Does it work for you?
When I wrote this, I hadn't. I have since tried it and it doesn't work

You might have to try registry hacks. I'd suggest to look into keeping
the IMAP PSTs local with the WDS indices on a network share instead.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
Office 2007 Beta 2 Technical Refresh (B2TR):
http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/09/18/43
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
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